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Good Intermediate and sinking lines, why not made?

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sms
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Good Intermediate and sinking lines, why not made?

#1

Post by sms » Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:44 am

There is a gazillion of floating lines in several classes.. From bad to great.
But full Intermediate ones - in my opinion there is one. But it is heavy. The Rio Leviathan Intermediate 500gr is not 500gr head - one of mine is 630gr (haven’t weighed the others). The materials on that line are perfect. Stiff, but can be stretched straight. Even in temps as cold as 10C/50F at least. And can be soaked (wet the reel the on the evening of the day before fishing) to make it easier for the start. Tough, doesn’t break, doesn’t tangle and stays nicely on boat deck when running. The old A - i - r - f - l- o tropical polyfuse xt clear tarpon was almost as good with the materials (the coldwater version is crap, too limp -> constant tangling problem) and better taper.

So, why is there no #10-12 full intermediate lines with tough min 50lb monocore and hard coating (result is stiff, but stretchable to straight). Also the head should be a bit longer than the current bricks on a strap.

Problems with current intermediate lines:
- floating running line (doesn’t cut through the waves, flies around the deck too much and takes unnecessary space on the reel)
- braided core on most (limp -> tangles and if the coating is hard tropical, you can’t stretch it straight to make it work)
- usually 30-35lb (with mono it is easy to go for 50+ in #10 and higher weights).

The same is with sinking lines, albeit not as bad. The main problem is that the running line (on Leviathans) is intermediate. If it was S3, it would be a great line instead of a good line it is now. When going deep, you need a faster sinking (and slightly thinner) running line than intermediate. SA’s Sonar Titan S3/5/7 nailed the sinking configuration, but the materials are not durable enough (and not as great handling & not as wide temperature range as on Leviathan).

Going to ask Simon if they could solve this as they have the material combination dialed in.
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-Sakke

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Paul Arden
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Re: Good Intermediate and sinking lines, why not made?

#2

Post by Paul Arden » Sat Jul 13, 2019 12:43 pm

HI Sakke,

I think the problem is numbers. I’ve asked RIO, SA and Cortland about long belly or even DT full sinkers. Apparently they don’t sell. It seems that just about everyone wants a short head that’s heavier than AFFTA.

Tropical long belly floating lines in light line weights. Something else that’s missing. The demand here is small too. I get 50 made at a time and it takes me 2 years to sell them! With those sort of numbers it’s not surprising that major manufacturers can’t afford to list them in catalogues.

Our lumi-line is a DT Intermediate 6. It’s a bloody good fishing line. Once again not selling in huge numbers though.

I’ll consider running off a bunch of Intermediate 10WTs with long belly and sinking running line as our next line. There might be enough Sexyloopers to make it work. I’d like to sell a few more of the tropical teaching lines first!

A full range of flylines is a risky proposition. With tapers, line weights and different densities you could easily invest 100K US. Maybe it’s not that risky - for 100K you’ll get 300K back. The only question is how long will it take. I certainly don’t want to be buried with flylines. There are only so many that I’ll need in my next lifetime.

Cheers, Paul
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Re: Good Intermediate and sinking lines, why not made?

#3

Post by sms » Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:24 am

The perfect boat intermediate #10 is something all albies, redfish, striper etc fly fisher should have (or get as they don’t have it). The fast sink would maybe be a bit harder sell - it is the line for deeper dredging (fishing blind/fish finder marks/to get to bigger fish lying beneath the bait/behind trawlers).

The #12 intermediate is the same for tuna (and other big game that doesn’t require flies the size of a chicken. Less people doing that, but should be enough for a batch at least easily. Just need to have the distribution channel or good modern mouth to mouth. The sinking version is the same stuff as with the #10 although even for albies following trawlers heavier rod would be the choice I guess to keep the gear out of the trawler cables and to get the fish in green as there is usually sharks too. There’s gazillion sharks in Florida too. We broke 14 fly lines in 7 days, three guys fishing albies in Florida and muscling the fish in.

I know there is some suppressed line demand in my fishing circles for good lines. I know I would stock up my part. I think my friends would also do that, especially if they knew the batch would be one off. I did that (stocked up) on the Intermediate Leviathans as you never know when they would become discontinued.
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Re: Good Intermediate and sinking lines, why not made?

#4

Post by Paul Arden » Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:01 am

The problem is taper. I can settle for a head length around 50ft, but I would much rather have something around 65' with a long rear taper. Let me double check on a line that SA is bringing out. I've been using something in floating that would be perfect in Intermediate and maybe something they have in mind. Fast sinking lines that aren't bricks - this seems impossible without having a batch made.

The irony is I managed to get a couple of DT fast sinking lines in 6WT. Not tropical, not super smooth etc etc. Where made? China! They are still a long way off the coatings that I would like however. But they are still good fishing lines and allow for me to mend around structure and fish the fly around corners.

Cheers, Paul
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Re: Good Intermediate and sinking lines, why not made?

#5

Post by sms » Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:40 am

For the intermediate and sinking, neither needs 65' or even 50' head. 40' or even 36' is enough. Relatively quick casting, can handle bad winds and sufficiently long casts with just a few false casts.

Without monocore and stiff coating, I don't think anyone will nail it. And for the love of... NO texture, ridges or any other that stuff ruining the targeted result!

China makes great stuff for competition lines. I've also used some skagits. They are fine for some time, but then the softeners escape and they're like steel wire that is cracking too.
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-Sakke

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Re: Good Intermediate and sinking lines, why not made?

#6

Post by Paul Arden » Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:25 am

I used a DT4 from China for 9 months in the jungle and three months in Tassie. It was still fishable after 2-300 days fishing. But I covered it in Shoot and would regularly apply it several times/day. To be honest without Shoot I wouldn’t have fished it after the first day :laugh:

The only short head I like is the infinity salt. But even that has its limitations. If want to hit the banks it’s much harder to place the fly accurately on the edge trying to make a long shoot on the forward cast only. Much better to shoot first into the backcast with a longer head. That way I have no problems placing the fly within inches of the bank. With floating lines I can also pick up from further away but that doesn’t apply to sinking lines of course.

However my biggest use for tropical sinking lines here is fishing around submerged structure - mostly fallen trees. With a longer belly line I can throw a Curve Mend right around the tree and when I retrieve the fly it will follow the line’s path and allow me to fish right around the tree. Being able to mend a sinking line at distance can be extremely useful. You can do the same thing when fishing around coral reefs. And if the line is slick enough you can still make quick shots without false casting.

Cheers, Paul
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Re: Good Intermediate and sinking lines, why not made?

#7

Post by Mangrove Cuckoo » Sun Jul 14, 2019 1:49 pm

Paul Arden wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 12:43 pm
I’ll consider running off a bunch of Intermediate 10WTs with long belly and sinking running line as our next line. There might be enough Sexyloopers to make it work. I’d like to sell a few more of the tropical teaching lines first!
I would like one, or two... In fact, could I get distribution rights for S. Florida? :laugh:
“Very simple man. Catching fish makes me happy. Scaringly simple.”

Håvard Stubø

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sms
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Re: Good Intermediate and sinking lines, why not made?

#8

Post by sms » Sun Jul 14, 2019 2:10 pm

On the ocean you don’t need inch perfect control of long casts. But often you need to cast in stiff wind. It is just easier with a bit shorter head to get the full head out in fewer false casts. And sometimes the flies are quite not so nice to cast with a long line. SA’s infinity? I wouldn’t call it short. But could be different line as I didn’t find any salt infinity lines.
I'm here just for the chicks.

-Sakke

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Re: Good Intermediate and sinking lines, why not made?

#9

Post by sms » Mon Jul 22, 2019 5:57 pm

And then, flats pro full intermediate. Maybe this was just introduced? My wallet will not like this.
I'm here just for the chicks.

-Sakke

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