PLEASE NOTE: In order to post on the Board you need to have registered. To register please email paul@sexyloops.com including your real name and username. Registration takes less than 24hrs, unless Paul is fishing deep in the jungle!

Embarrassing question

Moderator: Viking Lars

Post Reply
Mangrove Cuckoo
Posts: 494
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:51 am

Embarrassing question

#1

Post by Mangrove Cuckoo » Wed Dec 02, 2020 1:20 pm

To save face I won't divulge how many years I have been tying, but I simply have not used this common technique before, and I now find it to be kinda difficult... :blush:

How do you fold a hackle before Palmering it around the shank like you would when tying a freshwater fly like a Woolly Bugger?

I've Palmered numerous saltwater flies but I always just wrapped the hackle without folding. After watching some videos I see an advantage of folding, but the hackles I'm using simply refuse to comply... leading to frustration instead of needed relaxation.

It is something that only works with small hackles like those used for trout flies???
"Technique is the proof of your seriousness"

Wallace Stevens

User avatar
Paul Arden
Site Admin
Posts: 14607
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:20 am
Answers: 1
Location: Belum Rainforest
Contact:

Re: Embarrassing question

#2

Post by Paul Arden » Wed Dec 02, 2020 1:42 pm

Hi Gary,

If it makes you feel better I’ve been tying for 40 years and never heard of it :D In fact it was only about 15 years ago I learned that hackles should be tied in at the butt and not the tip. Personally I still prefer to tie them tip first. Otherwise they look too tidy :cool:

Cheers, Paul
It's an exploration; bring a flyrod.

Flycasting Definitions

User avatar
Will
Posts: 303
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:44 pm

Re: Embarrassing question

#3

Post by Will » Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:01 am

Hi Gary

I’ve used several techniques. Some hackles fold easier than others. Hen and Schlappen fold easily. Cock hackles and small feathers less so.

There are a good few videos on YouTube which show different methods. April Vokey’s one is good.[url][/url]

The scissor-based method can be good for stiffer hackles.

With long feathers (saddles) you can fold them before you tie them in. Whichever method you use, take your time. They usually need quite a bit of working to get a good fold.

Finally, I think FutureFly do a tool especially for folding hackles. Worth looking up if you’re keen?

Hope this helps.

Will
Lineslinger
Barrio Pro-team
SGAIC
AAPGAI

"The only advice it is necessary to give the angler… is to avoid any approach to foppery, as trout have the most thorough contempt for a fop…”
WC Stewart

Mangrove Cuckoo
Posts: 494
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:51 am

Re: Embarrassing question

#4

Post by Mangrove Cuckoo » Thu Dec 03, 2020 2:49 pm

Thanks Will!

The scissors trick is likely to be my new best friend!

GM
"Technique is the proof of your seriousness"

Wallace Stevens

Viking Lars
Posts: 631
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:45 am

Re: Embarrassing question

#5

Post by Viking Lars » Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:50 pm

For palmering, I tie in the hackle by the butt, at the eye/front end of the body and then wind it towards the tail. If you do it this way, the hackle doesn't need folding and it falls beautifully backwards. Come across the tip of the hackle with the rib and counter rib up the body and tie off. This I find is the very best way of doing it.
I would only tie the palmerhackle by the tip at the tail end if the specific fly recipe doesn't call for a rib (and even then, I might use a piece of mono and do it as described above - the mono disappears yet strengthens the fly).
Check this video out - here I use the tying thread as the rib, but the technique is essentially the same (the link opens where the hackling begins):

Hope it helps :-).

marlsounds
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:34 am
Location: Wanaka, New Zealand
Contact:

Re: Embarrassing question

#6

Post by marlsounds » Fri Dec 04, 2020 10:58 pm

Thanks for that mighty fine video, Lars. I've never bothered tying palmered flies but this is dragging me back to my vice with hackles in hand! Cheers.

User avatar
Paul Arden
Site Admin
Posts: 14607
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:20 am
Answers: 1
Location: Belum Rainforest
Contact:

Re: Embarrassing question

#7

Post by Paul Arden » Sat Dec 05, 2020 10:05 am

Yep I tie palmers the same way as Lars. Perfect for tying with “poorer quality” hackles since you get an excellent taper are even the cock hackles are somewhat softer.

Cheers, Paul
It's an exploration; bring a flyrod.

Flycasting Definitions

Mangrove Cuckoo
Posts: 494
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:51 am

Re: Embarrassing question

#8

Post by Mangrove Cuckoo » Sat Dec 05, 2020 4:12 pm

Thanks Lars,

The whole thing, the tying, the fly, and the production was beautiful.

It was the Palmering step like of the golden hackles on the front that I was having trouble with.

There is a common saltwater fly called a Seaducer that has a similar front wrapped hackle. When I attempt to tie it "bendback" style all the materials are tied on a very short section of the shank. The last Palmered hackle I want very thick, unlike the sparse one on your fly. So I need a maximum number of fibers in only a few wraps.

Folding to double the fibers was driving me crazy... kinda like typing on a phone is doing now.
"Technique is the proof of your seriousness"

Wallace Stevens

flickingfeathers
Posts: 33
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2018 12:27 pm

Re: Embarrassing question

#9

Post by flickingfeathers » Wed Mar 17, 2021 2:49 pm

Like Lars, I tie at the front and catch it with the rib-just wind the rib as though there was no hackle and you'll not trap too many fibers.
I only fold hackles at the head/shoulder of the fly and do that by putting my thumb and first 2 fingers togetherand pass them back allowing the hook eye to go through the space between the fingers after each wrap.

Seaducer wants the hackle tied at the tip end, but rather than doubling it might be better to tie a thicker hackle in roughly in the middle(although still by the tip end) and wind the thicker webbier end.

Viking Lars
Posts: 631
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:45 am

Re: Embarrassing question

#10

Post by Viking Lars » Wed Mar 17, 2021 8:07 pm

Thanks for the kind words on the video.
Another trick to add is this: Instead of "wasting" time folding, breaking the fibres with scissors etc., I find the best and the fastest way in both palmered and "normal" hackles, is simply to stroke back the fibers *before* each turn, not after. Just as I do with the front hackle in the same video as above.

Lars

Post Reply

Return to “Flytying”