Fly pattern details

[Lou Bruno]

Took a trip to my local fly shop to scout out some crab fly patterns. Most patterns incorporated fine details...eyes, rubber legs, hackle, flash...you know what I mean.

Being a relatively new salt water tier, most of my SW patterns are bait fish patterns, are those details necessary for crab flies?
Also, the size of the flies we're about the size of a thumb nail, to match my local species...that I understand. Size, I think is possibly more important then "detail."
Lou

[ACW]

Lou, swff isnt my thing but I do know that often simple is best .My example is grayling flys ,lots of folks would use 5/6 features, for my fishing varied weighting and a simple pink dubbed body would out fish many of the contived patteerns ,it was a case of presentation and manipulation.
Best thing was I could bang out loads in a short time to share with friends!

[Lou Bruno]

ACW...any fly that demands too much time is a no go for me.

[Paul Arden]

Yeah this is an interesting one, Lou. Absolutely not IMO and for me it’s the same as putting ears and whiskers on a mouse fly or exactly six legs on a nymph. If it was necessary then I doubt we would ever catch fish in the first place. Furthermore I’m quite convinced that it’s exactly the wrong way to go. Please ask me this question again in about 10-15 years! By which point I will have developed some highly effective smudge crabs or proven myself completely wrong

Cheers, Paul

[Lou Bruno]

Paul, reminds me when I first starting tying. My roots began trout fishing. I tied my nymph patterns "in the round". Simple fast and effective.
Like to hear from SW fishers. Do we need all the details on Crab flies? Are some of those details "triggers."
Lou

[Mangrove Cuckoo]

Lou,

I have used crab flies in the past, and my experience says some detail can be important, but it depends mostly on the fish. Down here two common tailing fish are black drum and sheephead. I've fished for both using small crab flies that had "legs" made first of rubber, then later silicone. The drum kept eating the fly even after many legs had been removed, the sheephead (notorious for keen eyesight) seemed to demand more realism.

Except for sheephead, I personally think how the fly behaves is more important than fine detail. Somewhere in the past I read a scientific article about the structure of the eyes of fish. The number of receptors in the eye is different for different species, but in most cases they have many fewer receptors than humans... so their acuity is nowhere as sharp as ours. Chances are, they cannot tell if you have included the antenna on a shrimp fly.

The hot permit fly lately has been the Strongarm crab, but I think that speaks to "how it behaves" more than it looking like a waving claw.

Personally, I like to tie legs on my crab flies and put eyes on my streamers, but I suspect they are there more for me than for the fish.

[Lou Bruno]

There seems to be two trends with crab flies. Those with details (weighted) and the more simplic ones (floaters). Obviously both are presented to the fish differently. So, presentation is a key factor.
With trout flies we have tiers that tie realistic and semi-relistic flies...some of those flies are eligant.

Personally, the use of eyes are added on my bait fish patterns too. The "jointed" fly popularity is making it's way in SW fishing. The movement or presentation that is created acts as "trigger."

Your seeing "wiggle" tails too. Trying to replicate the movement of some of the soft plastic lures that have gained popularity lately. Adding detail challenges the tying skills of the tier.

Finally, the use of "Spey and Dee" flies...not talking solely SW fishing, lack fine detail, yet incorporate movement (presentation).
Some experimenting is called for on my behalf.
Lou

[Paul Arden]

I’m sure eyes can be a trigger. In fact I would be very surprised if you couldn’t just glue some eyes to a hook and strip that.

This is one of my most successful trout flies. It’s a Shipmans Buzzer. Or at least it’s what I think a fish thinks a Shipmans Buzzer should look like!

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I want to make a crab pattern than sinks to the bottom and dashes away like a crab. Position, movement, triggers.

I’m a strong believer that the more realistic you make the fly, the less lifelike it appears. Chinaman theory...

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FWIW I’ve caught Permit on Clousers fished like Crabs. But equally I am a total beginner at SW. However if I’m wrong then it will stand everything I believe true about why fish eat flies on its head. And I just don’t think that’s going to happen.

A common house cat, significantly up the evolutionary ladder. Does anyone think that eyes and ears matter a damned for Tiddles?

Cheers, Paul

[Paul Arden]

Of course if you hooked Tiddles a few times then maybe it would...

[Mangrove Cuckoo]

Lou

I have never heard of a floating crab fly!

Is that a Boca Grande thing?