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A different (?) view on rod-design.

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Merlin
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Re: A different (?) view on rod-design.

#101

Post by Merlin » Thu May 12, 2022 6:05 pm

I do agree Vince, the first wrong reference came from Ron with post number 74 instead of 71.

I wont’ suggest a possible explanation but confirms that Ron is a human being.

Merlin
Fly rods are like women, they won't play if they're maltreated
Charles Ritz, A Flyfisher's Life

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VGB
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Re: A different (?) view on rod-design.

#102

Post by VGB » Thu May 12, 2022 6:41 pm

Or a random number generator :D
"The deep truth of being human is that there is no objective experience. Our brains are not built to measure the absolute value of anything. All that we perceive and feel is coloured by expectation, comparison, and circumstance."

RSalar
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Re: A different (?) view on rod-design.

#103

Post by RSalar » Fri May 13, 2022 12:29 am

I think as the static begins to subside we will all come to the same conclusion: bend, in fact, does matter. Once we get there, then we can debate how much it matters ...

Cheers Boys and welcome to Team Bend Matters,

Ron

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Graeme H
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Re: A different (?) view on rod-design.

#104

Post by Graeme H » Fri May 13, 2022 2:00 am

Hi Ron,

Until you can tell yourself what you're going to use the bend for, it doesn't matter much - even to you.

Cheers,
Graeme
FFi CCI

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VGB
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Re: A different (?) view on rod-design.

#105

Post by VGB » Fri May 13, 2022 6:45 am

Ron
. "Matters" means that it has some effect on the performance of the rod. It could be a very small effect or it could be a large effect, but even the tiniest effect is an effect.
A washer in a car has an effect but do you fixate on it when you drive? Do you measure the success or otherwise of your cast by rod bend? What property of the casting system would you say has the largest effect on the performance rod?

Until you pick the rod up, your fishing equipment is a collection of inanimate parts.

Regards

Vince
"The deep truth of being human is that there is no objective experience. Our brains are not built to measure the absolute value of anything. All that we perceive and feel is coloured by expectation, comparison, and circumstance."

RSalar
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Re: A different (?) view on rod-design.

#106

Post by RSalar » Wed May 18, 2022 5:58 am

Hi Vince, I had the feeling that the resistance to admitting that bend matters was coming from the POV of an instructor. It’s like teaching any sport that involves equipment — the student wants to focus on the equipment and the instructor keeps insisting that it’s not about the equipment. Take shooting Sporting Clays for example (only because I recently took some lessons to up my game). I asked the instructor: “what choke I should be using?” He said (I’m not kidding), “choke doesn’t matter.” I didn’t argue, I knew what he meant. He meant at this point in your skill development, the choke you use doesn’t have any effect on how many clays you will break. I get it — bend doesn’t matter when there are other things that are way more important and those other things are where the student should be focused. By getting better at those other things, you will see a significant effect on performance and until those other things are perfected you should concern yourself about how much the rod is bending. That’s the instructor talking. I get it and if I was trying to help a student get better at casting I would simply say that. I know that bend matters — the bend matters a lot actually. It doesn’t matter to the new student, but it definitely matters when you are trying to maximize every possible factor that you can control. And the windshield washer and wipers matter a lot when you are driving through mud puddles and your windshield is getting covered with opaque liquid.

The original question was not from a student to an instructor; it was from a curious fly caster to other curious and knowledgeable fly casters. We all know that bend matters — it ridiculous to claim and try to prove that it doesn’t. The guides that are on the rod matter — it would be foolish to claim that they don’t. The grip matters — material, shape, weight, texture — they all matter. The fly rod that you use matters — try competing without one. Or if they allow 9 foot rods, try competing with a 6 footer. Why would a competitor not try to optimize everything that he can about the equipment he uses? Once he perfects his technique he should then test his equipment until he has found the optimal tool for the task at hand. Sometimes the difference between winning and coming in second (in any sport) is that little extra work that results in a minuscule improvement.

For the fisherman the amount the rod bend effects the way the rod feels — and since the whole purpose is to enjoy the experience, we choose a rod that bends the way we like it to. And (again just my opinion) I think that the amount the rod bends effects how well a rod will roll cast. I find slower, less stiff, more flexible rods “seem” to roll cast better than really fast, stiff, less flexible rods. Maybe with a different stoke the faster rods would out perform the slower ones — I don’t know. But as a curious fly fisherman (not as student) I would like to know if my theory is correct. Sometimes it’s hard to test things when you already have an opinion but I do intend to do some roll cast testing with various rods to see what I find out.

Anyway, thanks for your input, I appreciate it. Talk soon,

Ron

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VGB
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Re: A different (?) view on rod-design.

#107

Post by VGB » Wed May 18, 2022 8:30 am

Hi Ron

I don’t know anyone that has chosen a car based on the capabilities of the screen wash system, nor do I know anyone that does fishing and takes a rod for roll casting, another for accuracy and another for distance. I suspect that you are going to have to be a trailblazer on this one. We might find rod holsters matter.

Regards

Vince
"The deep truth of being human is that there is no objective experience. Our brains are not built to measure the absolute value of anything. All that we perceive and feel is coloured by expectation, comparison, and circumstance."

RSalar
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Re: A different (?) view on rod-design.

#108

Post by RSalar » Wed May 18, 2022 12:31 pm

VGB wrote:
Wed May 18, 2022 8:30 am
Hi Ron

I don’t know anyone that has chosen a car based on the capabilities of the screen wash system, nor do I know anyone that does fishing and takes a rod for roll casting, another for accuracy and another for distance. I suspect that you are going to have to be a trailblazer on this one. We might find rod holsters matter.

Regards

Vince
You have the wrong guy for that. I know people who take 2 rods when they go fishing. One rigged with a dry and another rigged for a wet -- that's not me. I want one rod that will do it all. Always in search of the holy grail. And how about the tournament bass fishing people in their shiny boats -- they all have 10 rods ready for action. I know the serious tarpon fisherman have at least two rods on their boat ... probably more. But, I'm a minimalist when it comes to fly fishing -- one rod, a box of flies and some tippet in my pocket ... put a set of clippers on a string around my neck and I'm off. If I know I'm going to be gone all day -- maybe a flask with bourbon and a decent cigar will come along, but that's it.

BTW -- I don't know anyone who would buy a car that didn't have a screen wash system. How about you be the trail blazer on that idea? :)

Have a great day,

Ron

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VGB
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Re: A different (?) view on rod-design.

#109

Post by VGB » Wed May 18, 2022 12:47 pm

Hi Ron
I want one rod that will do it all.
If only we could find a rod that had a variable bend :p
don't know anyone who would buy a car that didn't have a screen wash system.
Bedouin were there long before me.

Regards

Vince
"The deep truth of being human is that there is no objective experience. Our brains are not built to measure the absolute value of anything. All that we perceive and feel is coloured by expectation, comparison, and circumstance."

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Paul Arden
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Re: A different (?) view on rod-design.

#110

Post by Paul Arden » Wed May 18, 2022 1:32 pm

nor do I know anyone that does fishing and takes a rod for roll casting, another for accuracy and another for distance.
While I agree that we don't carry a fly rod holster with rods for every distance and type of cast required, that’s also because it’s inconvenient. If we were in respective competitions of the above disciplines we would have a different rod for each!

Cheers, Paul
It's an exploration; bring a flyrod.

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