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Lifting power of a fly rod

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Lou Bruno
Posts: 293
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 12:16 pm

Lifting power of a fly rod

#41

Post by Lou Bruno » Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:27 pm

Paul Arden wrote:That's marketing. Sakari has shown that rods that flex well into the butt have greater "lifting power". Most (not all of course) SW rods that are marketed to have "lifting power" are in fact the opposite.

Cheers, Paul
Paul

Are you saying, some SW that claim to have "lifting power" actually don't?

Lou

Michal Duzynski
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Lifting power of a fly rod

#42

Post by Michal Duzynski » Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:17 am

Only one way to find out- on a big fish ha ha.
Ok today I will make a video with a spring scale and we can continue.
Cheers
Mike

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Merlin
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Location: France

Lifting power of a fly rod

#43

Post by Merlin » Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:24 am

Lifting power.JPG
Lifting power.JPG (19.8 KiB) Viewed 1939 times
Let’s consider two situations where an angler fishing from a boat tries to lift a fish with a given torque, once with a butt action rod (noted b) and once with a tip action rod (noted t). The butt action rod is supposed to be softer here (smaller stiffness). In each case his torque corresponds to a force (Fb or Ft) applied on him at a different lever arm. The torque being the same, and being equal to the force multiplied by the lever arm, the force applied on the fish is smaller for the rod with the longest lever arm, that is to say the tip action one.

Now if the fish goes under the boat the longer lever arm will be more convenient to try controlling the fish. So for the angler, the “ideal” rod is a compromise between lever arm and force applied on the fish.

What happens if he wants to use a stronger rod, let’s say 15% stiffer (one line size approximately)? If the rod is from the same series (either a butt action or a tip action), it means that for a given rod deflection the force applied on the fish will be 15% higher. But, and this is the key point, if the angler is unable to produce a 15% higher torque, he will never be able to take advantage from the higher lifting power of the stiffer rod, the rod will likely be more tiring to use.

On the paper, the stiffer rod has a higher lifting power but it may not be possible for the angler to produce the necessary torque. The challenge for the angler is thus to choose a rod which can cast the fly used for the type of fish he is looking after, and try to compromise between the various qualities needed: line number, lifting torque, minimum lever arm for fish control, and other things I did not mention likely.

Depending on from where you look at “lifting power”, understood as the force one can apply to a fish, two different anglers are likely to chose two different rods, mainly depending on their physical strength. A weaker angler will have difficulties to catch a big one on a high line size rod, because he will not be able to apply enough torque. If he can he should use a rod on the butt action side to take maximum advantage of his torque capacity, or he might even go for a rod of a lower line number, overlining it if necessary to cast the fly. Possibilities are numerous. Sakke is right, but manufacturers look at the problem from the perspective of the fish.

Merlin
Fly rods are like women, they won't play if they're maltreated
Charles Ritz, A Flyfisher's Life

Michal Duzynski
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Lifting power of a fly rod

#44

Post by Michal Duzynski » Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:17 pm

Ok so I did it, and WOW what a fucking eye opener!!!

https://youtu.be/Rkd9pQv5bpA

Now, it might be not as accurate as it should be, but let me tell you I pull fucking hard there.
Just to clarify, this wasnt extreame as I did not wont anything exploding in a face of my waitresses, but I could pull harder.
- in vertical pull, where I would point the rod in the fish face ( no bending) I menage 6.58kg, on a 16lb poly leader- and I was pulling hard

-45° angle ( my favorite), the scale showed 3.07- 3.27kg, let me tell you guys I was pulling like shit holding the rod under the stripping guide with my other hand. I pulled, I pulled, i bounced and bounced and it inly showed +/- 3.27kg of preasure, but it felt like a massive fish on the other hand

- 90° angle, and suprise suprise, the lowest number of all, where I was expecting highest preasure and the rod snap in half. The video might not show it exactly, but again I was pumping hard with a secend hand under the striping guide.

Im happy with the results, especially knowing that the eod was from ALLIYEXPRESS chinesse ebay for a buck.

Im happy, and will diferently on the rods now ( hey casting a part- this I know already)

Cheers
Mike

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Lasse Karlsson
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Lifting power of a fly rod

#45

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:40 pm

Welcome to the other side Mike :pirate:

Careful with that hand under the stripper, the rod might snap there!

Cheers
Lasse
Your friendly neighbourhood flyslinger

http://www.karlssonflyfishing.com

***Bring Mark back!!!!!! ***

Lou Bruno
Posts: 293
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 12:16 pm

Lifting power of a fly rod

#46

Post by Lou Bruno » Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:34 pm

Merlin wrote: But, and this is the key point, if the angler is unable to produce a 15% higher torque, he will never be able to take advantage from the higher lifting power of the stiffer rod, the rod will likely be more tiring to use.

On the paper, the stiffer rod has a higher lifting power but it may not be possible for the angler to produce the necessary torque. The challenge for the angler is thus to choose a rod which can cast the fly used for the type of fish he is looking after, and try to compromise between the various qualities needed: line number, lifting torque, minimum lever arm for fish control, and other things I did not mention likely.

Merlin
Merlin

Excellent input, as a fisher, guide, and instructor your explanation is something I can understand and relate to clients.
You break it down so it becomes practical as relating to fishing.

Thanks
Lou

Lou Bruno
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Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 12:16 pm

Lifting power of a fly rod

#47

Post by Lou Bruno » Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:39 pm

Mike

Thanks for the demo.

Lou

Lou Bruno
Posts: 293
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 12:16 pm

Lifting power of a fly rod

#48

Post by Lou Bruno » Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:47 pm

Need to understand more, in practical terms,the meaning of "spring effect" and "lever effect".
How both relate to fly rods.

I have the book "DON PHILLIPS - The Technology of Fly Rods".

Anyone recommend other reference material?

Lou

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guest
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Lifting power of a fly rod

#49

Post by guest » Wed Sep 06, 2017 2:38 pm

Lou Bruno wrote:Need to understand more, in practical terms,the meaning of "spring effect" and "lever effect".
How both relate to fly rods.
All you ever needed to know :D

http://www.sexyloops.com/articles/rodcast.shtml
Bright but shite

IANACI - There’s no such thing as absolutes

Free the Mark One ☝️

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guest
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Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:04 pm

Lifting power of a fly rod

#50

Post by guest » Wed Sep 06, 2017 2:42 pm

Merlin, please could you reverse your analysis such that it looks at the force applied by the fish on the angler?

Regards

Vince
Bright but shite

IANACI - There’s no such thing as absolutes

Free the Mark One ☝️

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