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Lars FP about the bullhsitting line manufacturers

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Paul Arden
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Re: Lars FP about the bullhsitting line manufacturers

#61

Post by Paul Arden » Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:21 am

I realise that paying for lines makes a big difference. And there is a huge difference between paying 5USD and 100USD, for something that is very similar. I’ve been given lines from SA, RIO, Cortland, Barrio and one Chinese company. Hundreds and hundreds of them over the years. And other companies too. There is a big quality difference between lines. Generally speaking the more expensive lines have harder, slicker coatings. And they last longer. So I do think there is a difference there.

Reels are really the BS area :D do we really need a drag to go grayling fishing? :D I had a very nice Rimfly from Lasse that was about 30 years old. And I caught Gourami on it. If I can catch Gourami on a Rimfly then that’s all you need for trout fishing. Unfortunately the tropical storm saw the Rimfly in the lake and so that was the end of that!!

I’m sure that someday China will be knocking out product as good if not better. But we are not at that stage yet.

Cheers, Paul
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Re: Lars FP about the bullhsitting line manufacturers

#62

Post by Graeme H » Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:01 am

Paul Arden wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:05 am
Quicker loading surely would be for faster shots? What it really is is deeper loading for slower shots, Graeme.
I'm not disagreeing with the latter statement, but the line makers never say anything about "quicker shots". They only promise to "quickly load modern rods", as if that's what we fishermen are chasing these days. They (wisely?) leave out any implications of deeply loading a rod.

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Re: Lars FP about the bullhsitting line manufacturers

#63

Post by Boisker » Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:58 am

As someone who has got into casting far more recently than everyone (or at least most on here) I can understand the heavy line aspect.... I do t think for one moment people are generally giving a moments thought to “quicker loading” or “quicker shots”.

The main difference is they can feel it loading, it’s far more in your face and obvious... if you are just someone who fishes a bit, or doesn’t pay that much heed to actual casting (never practiced much, if at all) the difference when casting a fast rod with a line fully 1 weight (or half) over compared to a line bang in the middle of the true line weight range is very noticeable. It just makes the casting process easier, remember for many casting is just a means to an end, they have to cast to get the fly out, but they have spent very little time thinking or playing with casting.

There’s a guy on the American forum who regularly refers to it as... true to weight feeling the line and over weight feeling the rod... it’s not an accurate description but does help explain the difference in feel.

People are buying the ‘over weight’ lines because they want very obvious feedback, they want to feel the ‘rod bending’... they don’t like the lighter feel of a true weight line.

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Re: Lars FP about the bullhsitting line manufacturers

#64

Post by Geenomad » Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:54 am

Boisker wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:58 am
People are buying the ‘over weight’ lines because they want very obvious feedback, they want to feel the ‘rod bending’... they don’t like the lighter feel of a true weight line.
Agreed and it fits with people overpowering their casts in the (vain) belief that oomph will compensate for dodgy technique. Unfortunately, it isn't commonly accepted or understood how little oomph is needed and how it actually undermines technique.

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Re: Lars FP about the bullhsitting line manufacturers

#65

Post by t.z. » Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:50 am

Paul Arden wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:05 am
Quicker loading surely would be for faster shots? What it really is is deeper loading for slower shots, Graeme.

Are those measured weights TZ or pulled off the site? When I mentioned it to Mike he good me they target the upper end of the scale not the centre. This is why we need to weigh all this stuff.

Cheers, Paul
That's of his page. When was the last time you had one of his lines?

BTW - what about the lines your were supposed to send a year ago?
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Re: Lars FP about the bullhsitting line manufacturers

#66

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:46 pm

Paul Arden wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:21 am
Unfortunately the tropical storm saw the Rimfly in the lake and so that was the end of that!!


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Re: Lars FP about the bullhsitting line manufacturers

#67

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:48 pm

Paul Arden wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:02 pm
It is very interesting because it’s the complete opposite of marketing blurb and what many people believe ie heavier line for quicker loading. I think that’s theory before practise.

Cheers, Paul
The rod works as a big spring, the quicker you can load it, the better you can cast.... 🤣

Physics, nobody believes it, bollocks is much better... 🙈

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Re: Lars FP about the bullhsitting line manufacturers

#68

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:53 pm

t.z. wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:35 pm
Paul Arden wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:07 pm
Another good example is the Barrio 125. That’s also somewhere in the middle weights. So on the HT6 I’d fish or cast the 125 5WT. That rod was essentially designed around an XXD 6.

Cheers, Paul

GT125 WF5F fly line - target weight at 30 feet - 140 grains / 9.1 grams. - standard is 140

GT125 WF6F fly line - target weight at 30 feet - 160 grains / 10.4 grams.- standard is 160

Target and real life tend to differ quite a bit, reality is often disappointing ;)

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Re: Lars FP about the bullhsitting line manufacturers

#69

Post by Paul Arden » Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:48 pm

what about the lines your were supposed to send a year ago?
Haven’t made them yet. Plan to with next batch! It’s always more challenging when I get asked for something I don’t have :D

Do you have a measuring balance?

Cheers, Paul
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Re: Lars FP about the bullhsitting line manufacturers

#70

Post by t.z. » Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:52 pm

Paul Arden wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:48 pm
what about the lines your were supposed to send a year ago?
Haven’t made them yet. Plan to with next batch! It’s always more challenging when I get asked for something I don’t have :D

Do you have a measuring balance?

Cheers, Paul
Maybe you should move this post into the fly swap section ;-)

I am totally unbalanced let alone having a measurement balance. Hence me being so upset about the fucked up labelling some of the big shot manufacturers seem so fond of.

As for the Barrio information on their website. I find it very transparent. However. I wouldn't know how much they vary as I tend to buy only one line and not hundreds like you obviously do as you seem to have a good overview, but point being is that this manufacturer actually targets the standard whereas others simply give a shit.

At least then me as customer can return product when it does not meet the given specs which were part of the purchasing contract. (construction industry consultant brain kicking in here) The weight and the tolerances are given, not only the AFTMA standard, so those are facts easy to check (when having the measurement equipment at hand obviously).

So from a consumer rights point of view I think I have a good chance getting my money back if can prove that the specs weren't met. So should I have doubts after having unpacked and cast the line I can still return it based on the information given when the product was ordered.

However, it raises my appetite for a product when the seller is giving transparent data on his stuff. Like this spec sheet with the line weights in grams (I´m metric) or the video of a guy ion boat explaining how he designs his rods. That is transparent.

About pricing - we all know that a product which can be bought direct has similar oil not higher value even if it is much less in retail than products which go through various layers like import, distribution and retail. Each takes their share. So a line which retails for 80 euros in Europe has a factory outlet price of less than 20? I wouldn't know as I have not worked with import for 35 years ;-)
“All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others.” - Douglas Adams

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