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Lars FP about the bullhsitting line manufacturers

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Paul Arden
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Re: Lars FP about the bullhsitting line manufacturers

#21

Post by Paul Arden » Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:16 pm

Incidentally TZ, SA is about the only one who still makes true to weight lines! We need to start populating the line database :D

Cheers, Paul
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t.z.
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Re: Lars FP about the bullhsitting line manufacturers

#22

Post by t.z. » Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:20 pm

Paul Arden wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:10 pm
There is a problem here Thomas and it actually comes back to fishing and not just matching rod to line.

Let’s take the example today that Gary writes. https://www.sexyloops.com/index.php/ps/ ... ncertainty Irrespective as to whether the line feels comfortable on this rod (I very much doubt it!) the tackle is not now an 8WT but a 10WT. I sometimes use an 8WT for streamer fishing for large trout - but I would never use a 10WT!!!

An even more interesting example I think is trout fishing with fine tippets. We often fish size 20 flies with 7x /.10 tippet. With a 4WT line and a reasonably forgiving rod not a problem. But if that line is a 6WT then you simply cannot fish properly.

It’s like wearing shoes that are too big for you. Yes you can still walk but try to run and you will fall flat on your face!

Cheers, Paul
Yes, I totally agree. I find it more than disturbing that they do not stick to the standard, even though the standard is a bit of a compromise. Most standards are.

I was just trying to find why on earth 🌍 the ones fucking with the standard are the best selling ones - despite being not really applicable to fishing. Hasn’t this whole education body of casting and fishing instructors failed in a way?
“All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others.” - Douglas Adams

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Re: Lars FP about the bullhsitting line manufacturers

#23

Post by Magnus » Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:38 pm

"We often fish size 20 flies with 7x /.10 tippet. With a 4WT line..."

Often? Hah!

Seems to me the heavy line problem is more an issue at heavier line classes - one or two weights heavy is about standard now. At lower weights I've seen a few short belly lines (SBT from SA for example) where the head is less than 30ft (SBT4 head is 23.3ft) and the line design means the head weight is about the AFFTA standard for the line class on the box. Sounds good? Then you check the head weights and the SBT 4 I have the head weighs 140gr - meaning its technically a #5. That said I'm far less bothered by that fudge than heavy lines at the other end of the scale.

Some years back Cortland brought out their Precision series, their marketing blurb was that the lines were accurately described, made to standard. (I seem to recall some were half a weight heavy but it said that on the box?) Thing is if you are test casting a GPX7 next to a Precision7 and an Airflo 7 (Does that still translate?) in the confines of a typical test casting area the heavier line loads better and likely shoots better - for most casters probably casts longer too. Airflo's I've tried are normally one heavy, some ranges are two sizes heavy. On the ease of casting judgement Cortland's transparency/ honesty created a serious disadvantage for tackle sellers.
If that outfitter set up a like for like comparison - GPX8 vs Cortland9 vs Airflo7 - to match a shiny new #7 rod? Who would really choose to buy a #9 line?

Magnus
"Actually I can't because you are right! " Paul Arden 8/6/2019

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Re: Lars FP about the bullhsitting line manufacturers

#24

Post by Boisker » Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:24 pm

I don’t really consider it any more....
I mostly fish 4w’s for trout and grayling
.... and have settled on either SA mastery trout or SA DT in a 4w... I keep getting tempted to try the amplitude smooth trout line, but it’s f’ing pricey... but at least I know where I am with all 3 of these, 120 grain, so nothing to consider.. :D

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Re: Lars FP about the bullhsitting line manufacturers

#25

Post by Boisker » Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:35 pm

This will be a tricky question as people are fishing in such different circumstances and for widely differing species, but it would be interesting as to which lines people prefer...

So for average trout / grayling size what lines do people use?

What are people using for other species / requirements?

(...... and is anyone going to be brave enough to admit to fishing a line that two weights over.?? :D )

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Re: Lars FP about the bullhsitting line manufacturers

#26

Post by Paul Arden » Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:32 pm

I use a 4 DT for virtually all my trout fishing. Down in Bosnia it’s all tiny flies, nothing heavier than .10 - for nymphing anyway. I go up to a 6 rarely for trout but for NZ I certainly would. 6 is pretty good all round - it’s my Gourami rod/line. For Snakehead either 8 or 10. 8 is nicer to fish but 10 is handy when you hook a fish over 5KG (less risky on the blank - the Leader is 50lbs and the wire 40lbs. If you lock up and the wrong angle you will break the rod before the leader.

I’m a strong believer in going as light as you can get away with for fishing, without compromising the fight. I always think you should fish the heaviest tippet you can get away with too :D

Cheers, Paul
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Re: Lars FP about the bullhsitting line manufacturers

#27

Post by t.z. » Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:37 pm

Boisker wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:24 pm
I don’t really consider it any more....
I mostly fish 4w’s for trout and grayling
.... and have settled on either SA mastery trout or SA DT in a 4w... I keep getting tempted to try the amplitude smooth trout line, but it’s f’ing pricey... but at least I know where I am with all 3 of these, 120 grain, so nothing to consider.. :D
Same here, just that I use a 5wt DT on my Stickman P5 and a 4WT DT on the HT4. Both Barrio for 27 GBP including freight !!!!!, brilliant fishing lines. Next season I plan to add a Stickman P3 9,6 for a 3wt. Make a wild guess what I´ll be fishing on it .... ;-) Both Rods are designed for the AFTMA standard I´ve been told by the men behind the designs ... and I believe them. Some say they are some of the most respected in the FF world ;-)

Rio and SA are not interesting for me. A - for the money, and B for their weird labelling. I do not have the possibility to try the line before I buy it (who has???) and parting with 3 times the money for some unknown voodoo bs ... no thanks.
“All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others.” - Douglas Adams

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Re: Lars FP about the bullhsitting line manufacturers

#28

Post by Paul Arden » Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:39 pm

If that outfitter set up a like for like comparison - GPX8 vs Cortland9 vs Airflo7 - to match a shiny new #7 rod? Who would really choose to buy a #9 line?
I agree this is part of the problem, Magnus. The other parts are that a) many rods are too stiff for your average angler, especially if he/she can’t double haul and b) for some strange reason anglers buy the rod first and try to match a line to it instead of buying a rod to match a line.

I don’t think I’ve ever read, “I’m going fishing for chalkstream grayling, I’ll be fishing size 18-22 nymphs and dries. I’ve bought a DT4. What rod should I buy?”

No it’s always I bought this rod, what line “loads” it best?

Cheers, Paul
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Re: Lars FP about the bullhsitting line manufacturers

#29

Post by Paul Arden » Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:47 pm

You might need to weigh your Barrio lines there TZ. The ones I’ve measured have always been heavy. Of course you might prefer a slower action from the casting but I remember you once had a 5 on the HT4 which you didn’t like (me neither!). The best line for this rod I have found has been an SA DT. More expensive yes but I’ve always said if you are going to spend a few quid, forget the rod, forget the feel, buy a top quality line.

Cheers, Paul
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Re: Lars FP about the bullhsitting line manufacturers

#30

Post by t.z. » Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:25 pm

Hi,

I had the 5wt Thunderbold on the HT4 you were so kind to send along with the rod. There was or still is not $wt Thunderbolt, is there? Thet TB It was too heavy.

The Barrio Mallard DT5 and DT4 I have seems spot on for my fishing with the above mentioned rods. I also have to cast pretty long at times to then miss the fish, but hey - a take in otherwise event-less evening is something, isn't it? I might have to check the exact weights, but it cannot be off by much. I've sent a message to Mike ... and here is the difference. Every customer has access to the man behind the product whereas SA and RIO are not very responsive. I can show you the strange emails I had with SA when they changed their marketing policies ... It seemed to haven gone very corporate there after Bruce had left.

:O :O :O

Anyway, I wouldn't have a problem spending the money if I´d see a benefit, but as the Barrio lines work very well, so why? Barrio also has a return policy, so they are naturally the first choice for me. If they do not work I can return them and go into the SARIOAIRFLO jungle and fight my way through ;-)

Cheers,
TZ
“All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others.” - Douglas Adams

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