Furling

[Chess]

Hi,
I've been fascinated reading on this site, glad I joined. Just a few pointers I picked up has out me out on the grass and my casting has improved and has made me keen to practice more and cure some bad habits.
What I wanted to introduce was the furling set up I've developed over the last year or so. I've rejected a number of boards and using electric hand drills drove me to drinking beer instead of furling. Geezers I made lots of messes and went through a ton of thread.
Fast track to a year later and I'm still no expert at it by any means but I'm getting to know my way around some engineering concepts with furling.
I'll simply post some images of it and as time rolls on and more experiments evolve I hope to come up with some definitive results. I've found making dry fly leaders very promising, even out to 25' seems quite manageable with small dry flies (great with midge & ant patterns) and in the small streams where I trout fish it negates having a conventional fly line on the reel. Early days in development, but I do see a lot of promise.
I ended up preferring a 3 strand system, better, rounder circumference, but it also gives the option of 2 strand for extremely fine tapers. I presently use the 3 strand machine sold by Eclectic Angler but have a bunch of cogs and shafts in a box to maybe might even construct a 4 or 5 strand machine. I'm just seeing where my enthusiasms take me. I've used all sorts of threads, silks etc including nylons and fluro (have even ordered some fine kevlar thread. Keen to see what that stuff does, it's bullet proof!) and by the end of next summer expect to have some favorite tapers and formulas worked out for different situations and fly weights/bulk. Interestingly, good indications come from mixing a strand or two of 2lb fluro or nylon in polyester threads & braid, it stiffens them, but it's too early to see any consistency and the rod weight preferred is 3-5wt. Also, I've got a stack of linseed oil concoctions brewing in my head to try and coat them for weight and stiffness. The time it takes to dry between coats is a pain. But wow, furling sure has an infinity of options and keeping it simple seems to be the best goal to shoot for. As was suggested to me an opaque leader does have some real advantages in certain situations in non reflective loops unrolling above the water's surface in sunlight without the reflective "flash."
My set up involves a a sewing machine motor with 3 hooks spinning one way and a fourth that spins the opposite way (for power furling). I have 2 main furling boards just over 2 mts long and an extension of 1 mt that can be added to either board or paced anywhere independently to introduce a taper. I have them on workshop stands which are easily movable to create any length leader or line. I can taper both ends of a line and the longest I've experimented with so far is 60' (the workable width of my front yard. Making fly lines themselves, although a bit tricky (really frustrating if you screw it up) but it's very possible to create almost any type of taper, bass, WF, progressive or super subtle.
Oh, the aluminium angle channel on the terminal furling board is for guiding the block the furling hook is onto slide. As the thread is twisted it contracts the line, but when power furled it retracts back again. As the rule of thumb is twist until 10% shrinkage is obtained. It's a 6' channel so this system can produce a 60' fly line (in theory anyway). Those wiggly bits of wire on the front of the block are to keep the strands apart while twisting/spinning them so they don't prematurely twist together.
Early days, and it's an early winter here in Australia (very wet too) and I'm going bush for awhile but will resume with my furling aspirations in the warmer months. Maybe, someone has some pointers, advice... or I can try to answer questions if anyone's interested. It's a fun hobby and serious it is not, it's not a commercial venture either, (had enough of those in my life, but hey, $ is $ I suppose), but I would like to get somewhere with it technically and fool some really spooky saltwater fish I'm having an awfully hard time with.

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[Paul Arden]

Wow that’s quite an operation, Chess!!! I had no idea you could make flylines as well. I’ve only seen small Ouija boards for making leaders. I’ve been making some spliced hollow braid leaders here for Gourami, which are then left overnight in a varnish/linseed oil mix for weight and allowed to dry… for a few weeks – this was one of Graeme Hird’s ideas that he dreamed up while sleeping. I thought I was doing well with this operation, but I can see I have quite a ways to go. At least I don’t have a garden size restriction I suppose

How have the flylines been that you have made? The Kevlar thread sounds interesting too. We have been experimenting with it as an under wrap on ferrules for our competition rods.

The reason I started using the varnished braid as a leader incidentally, was because I started using spectra for tippets for the gourami and could only get about 9’ of this stuff to turnover. The weighted leader allows me to fish 20’ leaders which is far more practical for these fish.

Would love to see some photos of the finished products.

Cheers, Paul

[Chess]

My take on it all is that the industrial revolution circa 1760/90 thereabouts introduced mass produced silk and cotton threads to the world, and quickly replaced horse hair lines as I see it. One can only guess at what the introduction of threads and the effect it had on fly fishing actually was and what this new cutting edge technology created within the sporting community of the day and the market/prestige by getting the attention of the ruling elite would be been intense. The rods of those days were anyone's guess too, and split cane has it's own history of development and quality must have been purely up to the skill of the maker coupled with skill of the angler, plus the reel was born. Kenkara style rods were all the go prior to that.
Furled silk lines kept the split cane rods 'bent' for a couple of hundred years and is unfairly given the snobby reputation it seems to have imo, except only the elite had the leisure time and access to such waters to fish. But that's all they had to deal with that worked on those chalk streams I deduce, they didn't have leaders as we know them and nymphing/streamers was a crude idea at best or unknown all those years ago. Seems like one of those "lost technologies" like the English silversmith. How they did what they could do wasn't always recorded per se as it was hard won experience earned by long apprenticeships starting preteen and a lifelong dedication and a lot of it was based on the "father to son" passed down techniques. I'm just trying to delve into the unknown here and sort of reverse engineer by trial & error. It's quite the rabbit hole I disappeared down and to be honest, controlling a finely furled 25' leader is a bit of a hit and miss affair at this stage. Sometimes it casts wonderfully and sometimes it's all over the place or knots itself, it can be made so fine. It truly is early days and so far I think my status presently is better likened to being that of a 'tinkerer.' It's mind blowing the options, especially combining the rod actions of modern carbon and how furled leaders/lines respond. Need to get a hold of a fiberglass rod and see how that goes too. It's a damned site lot easier to buy or knot leaders and be done with it, but that's not the point. It will take a few seasons to get a better grounding that's for sure, but the lacquer concept with versions of varying concoctions of boiled linseed and multiple lacquer oil coats seems to scream out, "this way!" It coats the threads smoothing out a lot of the "rope" signature, remains flexible, dresses and acts like those textured fly lines. There's merit to the concept of less friction in line passing through guides compared to super slick plastics generating friction, in theory anyway. Gary Borger produced a great fly line once that was wonderfully soft textured, he stated it operated on the principle of the dimples on golf balls making their flight straighter, cutting through the wind better than a smooth surfaced ball and less surface area travelling up the guides. I had 2 of them in 5wt and literally wore them out, I really miss them. Those shark skin textured lines eats grooves in your snake guides I reckon.
Here's some images of some leaders I've made. It's a tactile subject and you really need to feel them, especially the lacquered ones to gauge how various coats effect the stiffness, and then cast them. The longer line I made is on a reel, but I'm not happy with it (yet). The images might give you some indication of what they are like. Notice the image with multiple leaders - the 2 to the right have been lacquered, see how stiffer they are. Also, the leader in the upper left corner is furled 2lb maxima chameleon with a breaking strain of 6lbs. Took a bit, but I think I've worked out how not to get it all "twisty" and has little to no memory. Those leaders show good saltwater promise for the savage fish beasties. The upright board is an old prototype furling board which I use to dry out the lacquered ones.
Sorry to rave on, but it's a complex thing to try to explain.

[Paul Arden]

I was given a beautiful present of a 8’6” split cane rod with hollowed core and swelled cane overfit ferrules. The butt was spliced to fit ebony. This was a birthday gift from my good friend Christian Strixner. The interesting thing about this rod is that, although heavier, the action reminded me very much of an XP.

Where silk lines really have an advantage over plastic coated lines is their diameter. In this regards they are undoubtedly superior. The problem of course is that they need a lot of attention or they will rod.

I’m quite sure that a flyrod like this coupled with a silk line would be extraordinary to cast. Consequently I’m sure that there must have been some very fine flycasters in years gone by.

Over the years there has been a few guys trying to make flylines on the Board. But by appearances I think you are leading the way here!!

Cheers, Paul

[Chess]

OK, that's a little surprising & disappointing. I was hoping to glean some in depth info on taper formulas etc, but then again, maybe it's not. Furling leaders/lines as per my research had a bit of a revival around 2003 with Kathy Scott making a DVD on it in the US. It is no longer available and she dealt in a 2 strand system. She was very much involved with split cane rods. Also, the Italians at some point were right into artificial silk lines for split cane rods too. There's obviously some wriggle room for producing furled lines for those rods apparently. I have an antique one mounted on my wall but I'd never use it, it's old! It has an Italian silk line on its reel. It's coated with something very durable & organic I reckon, but I can tell it's furled.
Furled leaders are readily available in the US, (mostly 2 strand) particularly Boise Idaho, it seems to be some sort of an epicenter of manufacture. I fished around there once, good trout water.
As a kid in the Aussie bush I was shown how to make whips by an old stockman out of cow hide. Tricky to do as it was 4 strand and you had to cut the taper into the strips of leather pretty accurately and then splice together a tapering small diameter rope of different sizes for the core. It really hurt the hands to make them and your knife had to be razor sharp (got a bit messy with all that blood). Platting a 4 strand round leather tapering whip is another technology that has all but disappeared too. That's not quite true as the Peruvian cowboys still make their own saddles and leather gear from what I've been told by a businessman I knew once who dealt in agricultural products and has been to their ranches. But generally it has all but vanished with modern times.
OK, I guess my study into rope making was more unique than I thought, because that's all that furling is fundamentally. FYI, infusing the linseed oil into the thread/leaders (concoctions of it with lacquer & solvent to make it dry faster) can be quickened up considerably by using a vacuum system such as those food saviors or a vacuum pump with a tube to a glass jar etc. A couple of minutes (after the foaming ceases) is all it takes.
I'll keep plugging away with developing leaders first. Your gourami sound a bit like our bream in shallow, clear flats water, you can see them inspect things and I'm sure they "think" about what they are doing, clever damn things, spooky too. Yet in deeper, dirtier water they gobble up baited hooks and can be quite dumb, but they are always a major challenge on fly. Then I'll put some attention on seeking further info into furled lines for split cane rods, or develop it myself (my original theoretical quest) but I'll also see how they go for trout fishing and go from there. General casting for distance with them is a complete unknown.
Yep, fell down a rabbit hole... Feel a bit like Alice must have felt.

[Chess]

Hey Paul,
Amazingly enough I've reached a point where I know where I'm at with furling leaders and what the future entails. The internet, your site and importantly your comment on that gifted split cane rod was a good incentive to look back and reassess. The mechanical aspect of furling leaders to match fly line tapers generally (I have the modern taper formulas anyway of all the major manufactures - commercialism clouds their objectivity imo by their continual desire to hype the formulas for marketing & sales) are more or less up to further practice simply physically doing it and casting/fishing so it builds experience & knowledge. Getting the terminal loops (shorb & perfection loops plus tippet rings for leaders) all neat, tidy and functional is only a matter of time.
I wrote to a fly fishing mate of mine presently catching 5lb trout in the Snowy Mountains about it and my summary of data collected is best summed up with this:

"I wasn't fully appreciative or fully aware that the system developed by the American Fishing Tackle manufacturers Association (AFTMA) to standardize rod/line weights required that the first 30 ft of a synthetic line be the same weight as the old silk line designated equivalent. As natural silk is denser or heavier than the synthetic materials used in modern lines it meant that synthetic lines needed to have a wider diameter, or more bulk, in order to match equivalent fly rod ratings. This means silk fly lines are on average 30% thinner than equivalent modern synthetic fly lines, this 30% reduction in diameter equates to the equivalent of a 69% reduction in surface area and therefore drag, meaning that less effort is required to cast the line a given distance and that they are less affected by windy conditions. Plus dressed silk floats higher on the surface than synthetics floating more in the film."

It's a sort of, "chicken and egg scenario." Now that I understand the engineering basics of furling I may even go into 5 or 6 strand,(that is more or less as far as I'm prepared to go with home engineered jigs, my workshop is basic at best where I now live). I need to now concentrate on making fly lines, perfecting the leaders for them, in turn, will take care of themselves. I've sourced original silk and even its synthetic equivalent but polyester thread is very cheap to practice with to get the procedure right. And who knows what new beaut threads are out there? I've never fished or seriously cast split cane rods before but I know of a guy who makes them and he has an excellent reputation and a classy looking product. I'll arrange a casting session and will buy one that suits me. It appears a simple double taper is the common formula for split cane. With that background with split cane and silk lines generated, if I decide to advance into carbon based rods I will do so with a thinner line formula in mind, but for the meanwhile I will still fish with the modern gear I always have, but with more furled leaders though. I had it all about face and didn't know it.
Wow, what a head trip this has been... but it sure seems like a good game to play now that I'm older, sillier and love my whisky.
Will keep you informed of any advancements of note if they should occur.

[Merlin]

Hi Chess

I have been fishing with a nice long Orvis furled leader (discontinued unfortunately) for years. I prefer a #7 type of leader for my #5 line, the #5 leader seems to me a bit too thin at butt level for my #5 lines. I dislike knoted leaders although I fished with them for a long time. There are some furled available in Europe but they seem to be slightly too short to me (I have to check with my favourite one).I watched some videos on internet but it seems that getting the quality Orvis had (nice loops) is not obvious. Coloured leaders seem a bit strange to me, mine is dark.

In France it is still possible to buy silk lines (from parallel to shooting head), but their price is very high (from 60 € to more than 150 €).

Merlin

[Chess]

Hi Merlin,
Thanks for the info and your experience with furled leaders. It's a funny medium/item to play with and assess. I would love to obtain the Orvis leader you liked so much to see what the difference & quality is, pity they are no longer. I've heard of furling for some years and saw them for sale in the US but never bothered with them, preferring my own version of a harvey style knotted leader made from maxima chameleon. I eventually bought some off eBay a couple of years ago and was disappointed, they were nylon mostly and twisty 2 stranded crap imo, I threw them away. But my interest was aroused. There's so much stuff on the internet about it and most of it is amateurish as best. I set out and experimented. I am finally on the right path I reckon and they do present beautifully for dry flies. I've got the basic procedure for making them understood,(it helps to study basic rope making) but per my post above I have been lured into attempting to make fly lines by furling. I feel if I can get that workable and a good product that casts well with split canes I can make lines and leaders for almost any small to mid range weighted rod. Most silk lines I noticed are DT and I'll start there, it's an easy taper to make and its formula is readily available (just need a vernier caliper and a tape measure). Interesting concept to grasp about furling is the options for tapers is unlimited, as is threads and size & weights, it's also easy to get lost in all the options. There are no rules, except the ones you work out yourself. It's early days for me and I joined this forum & posted here to hopefully get more info but it looks like I already had all the info I needed already. I just need to be passionate about it and push through the accumulating learning curves and keep at it. Oh yes, colorful aren't they? I have a system of using a particular color so I know what the taper it is, (they are all prototypes) easier for record keeping. Soft pastel colors seem the go, maybe I'll make darker ones but pale chartreuse has been found pretty good for trout, they don't seem to be put off by that color. Also chartreuse is a very common color to use in clousers and deceivers. I have a theory that color doesn't threaten fish very much per se. It does not occur naturally in most aquatic environments. Wow, silk lines seem expensive.

[Paul Arden]

Was down the lake for a few days escaping the madness! I think a major reason plastic floating lines are so thick in comparison to silk lines is because they include microscopic air bubbles to make them float. The less dense and higher floating, the thicker the my are. This is why distance casting lines have a specific gravity closer to water. And why of course saltwater floating Ines have a different density too - or can do.

The gourami are a bit nuts. It’s not uncommon for them to inspect the fly for several minutes. Or look at it for a minute, swim away, come back, look at it again. I timed one refusal at more than five full minutes. Quite extraordinary. I haven’t landed one since September! Thought I was going to get one to eat yesterday. But I spooked it. Spooked one the day before as well. They’re bastards and I love them.

Flyline tapers are a bit nuts nowadays. I’m actually very happy with a DT for most of my fishing. If I use a WF line then I like a long rear taper. But of course tapers can get very complex! I would love to design a distance taper from scratch one day.

Cheers, Paul

[Chess]

Those gourami sound like they are quite extraordinary creatures. I think I know how you feel. I can get a bit, "tunnel visioned" with a species of fish and become quite obsessed until I get some, like those damn bream! Now I've got to wait until next summer before they move into the shallows again.
I agree, for general river fishing purposes, especially trout, seldom is a cast greater than 50' needed in my neck of the woods and a DT is all that's really required. That's all I had when I first took up the fly rod. Modern marketing and hype has somewhat shaped the fly line market with far too many choices imo. As far as I can make out, get your casting in order and life is a lot simpler. I'm retired now (well, mostly, the wife gets me busy occasionally), but am feeling somewhat more distanced from this ever increasingly insane world. But I want something to focus on in all weather and domestic conditions, and can occupy me without having to rely on others. Glad I discovered furling. I intend to have fun with it. Yes, it'd be nice to leave your mark on the world with designing something like a wonderfully efficient fly line or an exquisite leader that delivers a fly like a butterfly.