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Some thoughts on Bernd's thoughts on stretch in fly lines

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Paul Arden
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Re: Some thoughts on Bernd's thoughts on stretch in fly lines

#11

Post by Paul Arden »

I think there needs to be an addition measurement taken as well. That is the amount of stretch in the line after it’s been stretched with a hard long pull. In other words does it fully recover immediately or over time? I know many of us stretch out lines before fishing and casting, usually to get rid of memory.

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Re: Some thoughts on Bernd's thoughts on stretch in fly lines

#12

Post by Mangrove Cuckoo »

Bernd,

Wow... I find this very interesting!

Not just the flyline stretch aspect, but that you have found that a hard (sharp) pull on the retrieve can have a positive effect on a fish?

Where in the world were these bones? Were you using rattles in the fly?

And you find this hard retrieve works on other species too? Do you always cast behind the fish?

I ask that because the closest technique I know of is for barracuda with a popper... cast behind and pop, the immediately pull the fly away. When the cuda spins to investigate, do it again. After about 3 times, present the fly where it can find it and hang on.

But I have never thought it would work with a submerged "regular" fly.

I never would have thought of this, and I have never heard of anyone using this tactic before.

I know of some infuriating closed mouth fish, and I thought I had tried everything...
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Re: Some thoughts on Bernd's thoughts on stretch in fly lines

#13

Post by James9118 »

Paul Arden wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 10:21 am In other words does it fully recover immediately or over time?
Cheers, Paul
Hi Paul - this is an important thing to know. The visco-elastic response of fly-line materials such as PVC is quite pronounced, this is largely ignored in fly casting papers and is why I often find myself questioning the assumptions and predictions (I've yet to read a paper that has considered this fundamental material property). The visco-elastic properties are described using something called the 'Loss Modulus' - the name itself gives away what's happening to the energy inputted :whistle: . I have a piece of equipment in my lab called a DMA, this measures Loss Modulus amongst other things - interestingly the test sample supplied with the kit to demonstrate a high-loss material is made from PVC.

Hi Lasse - I guess any samples that would give a spread of results would be interesting to kick off, cold water lines, tropics, PVC, PU etc. Perhaps we should use this thread to decide upon a standard test as suggested by Bernd, using the sort of stuff that everyone has knocking about.

Cheers, James
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Re: Some thoughts on Bernd's thoughts on stretch in fly lines

#14

Post by Bernd Ziesche »

Bernd Ziesche wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 9:07 am How much stretch can we add to a fly line stripping wise you asked. Not much, but 5cm softens our pull significantly - especially on short distance pulls. I have zero doubt here.
Lars,
I may have been wrong in this! My exp. again came with shock absorbers.
Just had an excellent input from the experts on the best fly line production company. Now I tested the level of force necessary to stretch my shock absorbers and comparing it with my fly lines.
I need less force to stretch my absorbers.
I need to measure the force I need on my fly lines and put it in relation to what I really do in fishing.
According to the experts stretch in fly line would mostly not take place, because we add too little force.
I checked several lines yesterday again for how easy or not I can stretch them. Bottom line, very easy on low force when having a long line to the fish with some lines according to my feel. I need to measure precisely and check to give accurate numbers. At the moment I guess you made an excellent point and I was smart to differentiate between stretch in general and fly line stretch.

The industry btw. did measure stretch until the line broke. That explains the high numbers like the one Tim Rajeff referred to.

Ok, need to run, but had to share this.
I will run a huge test this winter!

I am having a hard time believing, that setting the hook into a Tarpon would make no difference with fly line stretch as I was told. Several fishing experts said the opposite. Also as Lasse claimed I feel a difference in casting a low stretch compared to a high stretch line. I will get blind folded on this and check myself here.
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Bernd
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Re: Some thoughts on Bernd's thoughts on stretch in fly lines

#15

Post by Bernd Ziesche »

Mangrove Cuckoo wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 11:23 am Not just the flyline stretch aspect, but that you have found that a hard (sharp) pull on the retrieve can have a positive effect on a fish?

Where in the world were these bones? Were you using rattles in the fly?

And you find this hard retrieve works on other species too? Do you always cast behind the fish?
Hello ;)
I (as it looks now) may have to stay corrected about fly line stretch having an important impact on fly movement.
I did differientiate between stretch in general and fly line stretch in my fp. Seems that was just fair enough though. My shock absorbers clearly bring that impact to my fly movement. I triple checked. But they need less force to stretch as fly lines do.

Not that much less force though. I tested many fly lines these days only by adding a level of pulling force feeling appropriate to me. I think it may depend on if we pull slowly (avg.) = I guess zero stretch fly line (Lars was right in his thinking) or agressive/sharp. Imagine how you break a 0.50mm nylon with the hands or cut yourself to the bone. I cant tell, I need to precisely check, which will take time!

Acklins Island they were. No rattles. Nearly first ff on the island at that time. Unspoiled fish. I often cast behind the fish cause I cant see them here. And yes, with pike one extra hard pull to beginn with can trigger them from 20m and more! I guess it seems easy food for them.
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Re: Some thoughts on Bernd's thoughts on stretch in fly lines

#16

Post by Paul Arden »

Sorry James, I know we speak the same language but I don’t know if that means it stays stretched for a long time or doesn’t? I thought it does but I’m not sure if you are confirming or refuting that :D

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Re: Some thoughts on Bernd's thoughts on stretch in fly lines

#17

Post by James9118 »

Paul Arden wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 11:58 am Sorry James, I know we speak the same language but I don’t know if that means it stays stretched for a long time or doesn’t? I thought it does but I’m not sure if you are confirming or refuting that :D

Thanks, Paul
:D :D :D If you apply a stress to a length of PVC line it will stretch. If you then remove that stress the line won't recover to it's initial length immediately, it will take longer. So yes, what you're seeing is the visco-elastic properties in action.

Cheers, James.
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Re: Some thoughts on Bernd's thoughts on stretch in fly lines

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Post by Paul Arden »

Ah good thanks :D
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Re: Some thoughts on Bernd's thoughts on stretch in fly lines

#19

Post by George C »

Bernd Ziesche wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 11:54 am
Acklins Island they were. No rattles. Nearly first ff on the island at that time. Unspoiled fish.
Bernd
Grey’s Point?
I fished there 1996 & 97.
No electricity ( part time generator) and no houses but the 10 mile road from air port to the camp was littered with wrecked refrigerators and washing machines. Apparently the drug runners packed them with cocaine, flew over the road, and shoved them out. The appliance absorbed the shock.
Bonefishing was mostly poor…….because the guides hadn’t a clue. For that matter they hardly had a boat. But the barracuda were something else.
Had a blast.
It cured me of ever wanting to be guided to bonefish again, however.
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Re: Some thoughts on Bernd's thoughts on stretch in fly lines

#20

Post by Paul Arden »

Fridge I can understand but a washing machine? :D They must be sampling their product!

With Gourami when they are feeding on algae off the stumps it’s actually not possible to put the fly in front of them, for the obvious reason. With these fish I *gently* place the fly down behind them and leave it static. They feel/hear it land and turn around to spend anywhere between one and five minutes admiring my creation. They’re impressed. Anyway the interesting thing is it needs to be a gentle landing. If I put it down hard to draw attention the fish spooks.

9 times out of 10 when you bloop a Popper behind a Snakehead it spooks. But the other 10% of the time they investigate.

What did the Bonefish do? Do they get fidgety and some eat/some spook or do they mostly eat?

Cheers, Paul
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