Discussion On Nymph Indicator Leaders (Blog post from Lars)

[Viking Lars]

Yes I'm going to try some more short ones as well. I hope the silicone helps you also. Thanks again. I too like that strike indicator however I used to produce and sell one that were direct competition with them. Same idea but different system. I'll go into more detail with another thread explaining how to make them, some may be interested. They seemed to be a good system for the rivers where I live.

Please do, Phil - I'd love to hear more about that.

[Chess]

“breaking strains tested on fish!!” Don't you just love the flippant way words are employed by the "not quite bright?"
In my foray in trying to get a practical understanding of threads, fibres and modern synthetics I found it interesting to end up paying attention to the engineers who work on industrial sewing machines. Or in this case, the ones who actually catch fish.
It's not exactly the truth that is printed on many spools.
One thing I'd like add, after reflection upon posting that video on "furling" by Brad of Hogg Creek Leaders is that there are a few ways to furl and that is one version, but the principles are constant. They did a lot of work to develop that system to capture the attention of those who frequent sporting shows.
Furling can be quite the research tool if you want it to be.

[Tommy]

A couple years ago I experimented with using Berkely NanoFil for my nymphing tippet. It is very thin and very soft and good for getting nymphs down quickly without much weight. I was using the green color and the trout didn't seem to mind it. It is kind of annoying to work with. It is so soft it can be hard to thread through the eye of small flies or any fly with material obstructing the eye. It is also harder to cut with nippers. Knots need to be different to avoid slipping but that isn't a huge problem (I was using a palomar knot). You also need to think of how to attach it to your leader or fly line. I was using a tippet ring which worked well. If you want to tie it directly to the fly line I would worry it would cut it. It also may be less abrasion resistant than mono but where I was fishing that wasn't a problem. I wasn't catching significantly more or bigger fish with it and I rarely broke off fish before my experiment so I stopped using it. I do think in situations where you need to use small flies or you need to sink flies quicker without adding too much weight it can be useful.

https://www.berkley-fishing.com/product ... il-1285551

[Paul Arden]

Hi Tommy, interesting product. I’ll look for it in the shop tomorrow. Diameter to diameter I think Spectra is stronger? Also a pain to deal with

Cheers, Paul

[Chess]

A couple years ago I experimented with using Berkely NanoFil for my nymphing tippet. It is very thin and very soft and good for getting nymphs down quickly without much weight. I was using the green color and the trout didn't seem to mind it. It is kind of annoying to work with. It is so soft it can be hard to thread through the eye of small flies or any fly with material obstructing the eye. It is also harder to cut with nippers. Knots need to be different to avoid slipping but that isn't a huge problem (I was using a palomar knot). You also need to think of how to attach it to your leader or fly line. I was using a tippet ring which worked well. If you want to tie it directly to the fly line I would worry it would cut it. It also may be less abrasion resistant than mono but where I was fishing that wasn't a problem. I wasn't catching significantly more or bigger fish with it and I rarely broke off fish before my experiment so I stopped using it. I do think in situations where you need to use small flies or you need to sink flies quicker without adding too much weight it can be useful.

https://www.berkley-fishing.com/product ... il-1285551

I took note to look up that product and just did. I added it to my list to see how it goes furled. Bit pricey though. The peculiar thing with the furling process is, it's unknown how the fibers/materials will respond to being twisted together and tapered. Also, when oiled with warmed up boiled linseed oil with a touch of varnish & left to cure they become stiffer and transfer energy differently. That oil concoction adheres and cures onto to mono and other synthetics generally (I soak the line in oil in a vacuum, using a jar connected to a food saver machine).
That also leads to the potential of oiling things like braid, tippet materials etc to alter their stiffness.
Geezes... I must sound like a mad professor but when dealing with free form hydraulics and air motion as in the fly fishing environment the scope of variables is endless. Fly fishers like to fiddle

[Mangrove Cuckoo]

Spectra and Dyneema are chemically equivalent, both are polyethylene, actually UHMWPE. (Ultra High Molecular Weight PolyEthylene)

I think Nanofil might have more thinner fibers that are spun than the others? It feels that way.

I find it (Nanofil) to be my preference, especially when using spinning tackle. It is limp with very low stretch, and importantly does not tend to tangle as much as other "spun" PE braids.

I do not use anything but monofilament on fly leaders. Curiously, despite general opinion to the opposite, I find gel spun lines to have much less abrasion resistance! Almost none. Maybe it is due to the underwater structure in the salty South Florida waters being very sharp? We have corals, barnacles and different oysters (the little "Coon Oysters" are the worst)... all of which tend to have sharp edges. Gel spun lines will just suddenly be floating in the air if a snook gets the line around a shoreline snag. Mono will shred but retain some of its strength.

While I do use gel spun lines on almost all of my conventional tackle, I add about a rod length of mono leader for protection from the snags.

Maybe the difference is due to the much greater diameter of mono for the same pound test?

[Chess]

Spectra and Dyneema are chemically equivalent, both are polyethylene, actually UHMWPE. (Ultra High Molecular Weight PolyEthylene)

I think Nanofil might have more thinner fibers that are spun than the others? It feels that way.

I find it (Nanofil) to be my preference, especially when using spinning tackle. It is limp with very low stretch, and importantly does not tend to tangle as much as other "spun" PE braids.

I do not use anything but monofilament on fly leaders. Curiously, despite general opinion to the opposite, I find gel spun lines to have much less abrasion resistance! Almost none. Maybe it is due to the underwater structure in the salty South Florida waters being very sharp? We have corals, barnacles and different oysters (the little "Coon Oysters" are the worst)... all of which tend to have sharp edges. Gel spun lines will just suddenly be floating in the air if a snook gets the line around a shoreline snag. Mono will shred but retain some of its strength.

While I do use gel spun lines on almost all of my conventional tackle, I add about a rod length of mono leader for protection from the snags.

Maybe the difference is due to the much greater diameter of mono for the same pound test?

That's a good post Mangrove . I've tried many different types of line on spinning gear in the saltwater estuaries. Summer is my favorite time when the shrimp run. It's exciting when the fish enter the shallows, darting about creating bow waves and present opportunities for sight fishing, but they are very, very spooky. Over many years a few techniques have developed with modern lines and soft plastics for such fishing, 2-3lb nitlon braid with a metre of 4lb fluro leader seems to technically correct for fooling them most often. Although it has been noticed shortening the fluro (FC Rock) to 2/3rd of a metre or 1/2 works better sometimes. I put it down the hinging effect of the braid to fluro connection & the fluros varied sinking rate of less or more material in the shallow water makes it hesitate or speed up as it sinks the braid. This all happens in a foot or so of water with unweighted 60mm soften plastic bugs.
Have tried straight through fluro/mono line of many sizes & brands to combat the wind playing havoc with such thin braid and messing up accuracy as you can't get too close but I'm sure the fish must see or feel the line splash as hook up rates drop. Also, you don't want stretchy line, you've only got a second to set the hook.
Such thin braid needs to be replaced or reversed on the reel often as the intense casting softens the fibers and knots around the runners are common. I now look with interest at nanofil.
Trying to convert this fishing scenario to a fly rod has presented huge challenges I only now are truly comprehending. Furled nitlon braid in chartreuse with a similar but much longer tippet, possibly in a stepped down configuration in fluro is the present theme but I'm open minded to the trying of all materials. This nanofil with it's suppleness might just play out. I can always stiffen it to varying degrees with furling.
Snags & oyster encrusted rocks quickly put an end to such finesse fishing, the fish are around a kilo or more, are tough fighters and take some stopping on light gear and small hooks. Luckily many areas such as the flats near reeds and hard against rock faces are available.

[Paul Arden]

Maybe the difference is due to the much greater diameter of mono for the same pound test?

Possibly! I don’t go pound for pound, instead I match diameters!! So I get about three times the strength and can unwrap 25lb spectra leaders from stumps that destroy 8lb mono in a heart beat.

Cheers, Paul