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Lines for big streamers in tight places

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jarmo
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Lines for big streamers in tight places

#1

Post by jarmo »

Greetings.

Which lines do you use when you fish with big streamers in tight places?

For non-anadromous trout, I use a max 6wt rod (*). However, I find 6wt lines - at least general-purpose ones - light for carrying some streamers: big, weighted, materials that soak water. Places are often tight and most casts are speys, but sometimes there is room for overhead.

Last week I used an 8wt intermediate WF line with a 6wt rod for this type of fishing, and I think it worked pretty well. Since I just pulled this line out of my reserve, I doubt it is the best possible for the task. So I started wondering what other people use. For example, I have never tried single-handed skagit lines.

I do not possess the skills/patience to build my lines, so I just go with what I get from the shop.

(*) I have owned and tried some famous trout rods > 6wt, including Scott ARC and Tom Morgan fiberglass, but I just feel that they are too much for the size of fish I may occasionally catch.
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VGB
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Re: Lines for big streamers in tight places

#2

Post by VGB »

I use pike fly lines, the Vision range is pretty good but I use a big stick with them.
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Paul Arden
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Re: Lines for big streamers in tight places

#3

Post by Paul Arden »

Hi Jarmo,

The SA Infinity taper is an excellent line for such circumstances. It’s 1/2 over. What I don’t know is how much over you want to go. However the head tapers quickly and is good if minimal casting is your aim.

Me I also have fished a lot of heavy flies in tight spots and I think the line is more of an inconvenience! There comes a point where I think the fly does it’s own thing and the unrolling loop does it’s thing.

Cheers, Paul
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Lasse Karlsson
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Re: Lines for big streamers in tight places

#4

Post by Lasse Karlsson »

Tight spots, micro skagit.

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Re: Lines for big streamers in tight places

#5

Post by Mangrove Cuckoo »

I don't know if you can find it in lighter weight lines, but a popular line for permit fishing is called a Tropical Punch. Typically, permit flies represent crabs so they are heavy but small and therefore very clumsy to cast. This line has a very aggressive taper that is almost the reverse of "normal" lines... but it masters those heavy / clumsy flies quite nicely, especially for short quick presentations. The lines were developed by a guide named Bruce Chard, who is well known for permit.

Of course, they are "tropical" lines, so they might not work in your environment. But, if you look into the line maybe you can find a similar taper that should meet your requirements?

Also, have you looked at a Bario Predator line... super aggressive "Pike" style that I have found works well for *very* large streamers.
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Re: Lines for big streamers in tight places

#6

Post by Bendix »

Hi

Like Lasse said, a micro Skagit line sounds like the thing for you.

If you want a Scandi taper, then you might want to look at the ULS shooting heads from Guideline.

I often use both these types of lines for fishing in tight, overgrown places, often with relatively large and heavy Salmon tube flies. And both types work very well, however, I find that the ULS heads are easier to make delicate presentations with. However, this might also be a matter of casting abilities…

/Bendix
jarmo
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Re: Lines for big streamers in tight places

#7

Post by jarmo »

Greetings all.
VGB wrote: Sun Jun 19, 2022 9:52 am I use pike fly lines, the Vision range is pretty good but I use a big stick with them.
So we are talking about lines such as Grand Daddy, which also start from 8wt. Throwing an 8wt WF line with a 6wt rod is not a problem, weight-wise it feels like carrying a longer line. So this is a valid option.
Paul Arden wrote: Sun Jun 19, 2022 2:23 pm The SA Infinity taper is an excellent line for such circumstances. It’s 1/2 over. What I don’t know is how much over you want to go. However the head tapers quickly and is good if minimal casting is your aim.
There seems to be an Infinity line in a number of SA line families, for example in the Mastery series. This is nice, since it gives a number of options, for example, with respect to price.

It is difficult for me to relate a specific line weight to a carrying capacity, with variations in taper, leader, fly profile and material etc. It feels more trial-and-error than analytical.
Paul Arden wrote: Sun Jun 19, 2022 2:23 pm Me I also have fished a lot of heavy flies in tight spots and I think the line is more of an inconvenience! There comes a point where I think the fly does it’s own thing and the unrolling loop does it’s thing.
That experience is one of the things I am trying to avoid, by "overlining" or doing something else.
Mangrove Cuckoo wrote: Sun Jun 19, 2022 2:49 pm I don't know if you can find it in lighter weight lines, but a popular line for permit fishing is called a Tropical Punch. Typically, permit flies represent crabs so they are heavy but small and therefore very clumsy to cast. This line has a very aggressive taper that is almost the reverse of "normal" lines... but it masters those heavy / clumsy flies quite nicely, especially for short quick presentations. The lines were developed by a guide named Bruce Chard, who is well known for permit.

Also, have you looked at a Bario Predator line... super aggressive "Pike" style that I have found works well for *very* large streamers.
The Tropical Punch seems to be discontinued.

As far as Barrio is concerned, I heard earlier that is was difficult to get their products here. After reading your message I went to their site, and the situation looks bad: two lines available, and the following message:
It could be one of the products that have been replaced or discontinued in 2021 due to the collapse of the UK fly line manufacturing industry.
I think the options above are all variations of one theme: WF lines with specific tapers for turning over large flies. On top of this, it is possible to play with line weight, leader thickess and length. My previous attempt - using an 8wt WF which I think is actually RIO's version of a taper for throwing big stuff - was one version of this approach.

On the other hand...
Lasse Karlsson wrote: Sun Jun 19, 2022 2:36 pm Tight spots, micro skagit.
Bendix wrote: Sun Jun 19, 2022 4:35 pm Like Lasse said, a micro Skagit line sounds like the thing for you.
As I said above, I have never tried skagit lines on single-handed rods, so I might learn something new. I do not know which lines qualify as micro skagits, but what I could find, shortest head first, were OPST Skagit Commando (13.5'), RIO skagit trout (15') barstool Skagit Scout (15.1'; here the name of the manufactorer was disguised by some Sexyloops conversion :)). So I think I will give OPST a try. One familiar site recommends 225gr for 6wt rod of at most 9', so I just ordered one. Rules of thumb suggest that a 225gr head will also carry 8' of T-8, so I can perhaps try to swing the streamers a bit deeper.

I happen to have suitable attachments (running line, T-8 tips, polyleaders) from lightweight double-handed rods in my closet, so this is not too expensive. Trying out different lines can tax the economy nowadays.
Bendix wrote: Sun Jun 19, 2022 4:35 pm If you want a Scandi taper, then you might want to look at the ULS shooting heads from Guideline.

I often use both these types of lines for fishing in tight, overgrown places, often with relatively large and heavy Salmon tube flies. And both types work very well, however, I find that the ULS heads are easier to make delicate presentations with.
These are mostly turbulent waters, so delicacy is in general not an issue. On the other hand, I was pretty surprised by how delicately an intermediate 8wt WF lands when thrown appropriately.

I am somewhat familiar with Scandis from double-handed casting, although there I use longer lines whenever possible (even when it is not sensible). Since we are talking about casting junk here, I think I will first experiment with a skagit, and take it from there if need be.

Thanks for all the replies!
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Re: Lines for big streamers in tight places

#8

Post by Paul Arden »

Hi Jarmo,
That experience is one of the things I am trying to avoid, by "overlining" or doing something else.
I don’t think that is about overlining, I think it’s the relationship is between the fly weight (and sometimes air resistance) and the flyline weight (or mass per metre length).

Then the question kf what rod to use is more down to how you want the rod to behave/feel.

For example let’s say you settled on an Infinity 8, I think that would carry the fly pretty much the same way whether you use a 6, 8 or 10WT rod.

Cheers, Paul
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Lasse Karlsson
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Re: Lines for big streamers in tight places

#9

Post by Lasse Karlsson »

Except you'd clip the tip all the time with the 10 and the 6 throws tails right Paul 😉

The fish might be more fun on the 6 though...

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Lasse
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jarmo
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Re: Lines for big streamers in tight places

#10

Post by jarmo »

Paul Arden wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 11:52 am Hi Jarmo,
That experience is one of the things I am trying to avoid, by "overlining" or doing something else.
I don’t think that is about overlining, I think it’s the relationship is between the fly weight (and sometimes air resistance) and the flyline weight (or mass per metre length).

Then the question kf what rod to use is more down to how you want the rod to behave/feel.

For example let’s say you settled on an Infinity 8, I think that would carry the fly pretty much the same way whether you use a 6, 8 or 10WT rod.
Exactly, we are talking about the same thing, I was just being unclear. Since I have restricted myself to a 6wt rod max, using Infinity 8 would then be "overlining."
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