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Instructors platform

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bartdezwaan
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Re: Instructors platform

#11

Post by bartdezwaan » Wed Oct 13, 2021 4:19 pm

Hi Paul,

Of course students need to give permission. I always ask that. My guts tells me it is easier to get permission if you want to share it with one other instructor opposed to sharing on a public medium.

But yeah, let’s invite non instructors! Where do we start? :p

Cheers, Bart

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bartdezwaan
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Re: Instructors platform

#12

Post by bartdezwaan » Wed Oct 13, 2021 4:29 pm

Paul. Thanks for thinking about it.
My above answer is a bit lame. But I don’t see it happen.

I have a need to be filled.
My instructions given to a specific student do not have the desired effect. I have it on video and he/she doesn’t mind me showing it to other instructors.
I would like advice and discuss the approach. Where do I go?

Cheers, Bart

RexW
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Re: Instructors platform

#13

Post by RexW » Wed Oct 13, 2021 5:10 pm

I'll agree that a discussion among instructors would be beneficial and that it is not really available currently online. As Paul mentioned, an attempt to create something similar several years ago did not succeed. This website has been the best source for discussions with other instructors, but there is a tendency to get more detailed than I think some people are looking for.

Here's an idea. Rather than posting student videos, any of us could post a video of ourselves casting different faults. For example, post a video of Creep. Then let's start a discussion that begins with the question of "what is the fault"? Then move to a discussion of "what could you tell the student to correct the fault "? Then we could have an open discussion about the video. It's a video of a casting fault so nobody has to worry about being criticized for their casting and you would not need permission to post it.

I think a few things are needed for something like that to work. Including:

- Need to post a " how to" for posting video to this site. I have no idea how to it.

- We would need the master level instructors to be patient and allow the less experienced instructors a chance to answer, before entering their answers. If some of you answer quickly, then many of us will just wait to read your answers. I would love the opportunity to see how the responses of newer instructors compare to more experienced instructors. But for that to work, we need to give the new people a chance to respond.

- The video clips would also need to be short. I don't think anyone will wants to watch a 5 minute video to find 2 seconds of fault. So, some basic information about how to edit a video may also need to be posted.

I've considered trying to start an online study group for CI and MCI candidates to do similar discussions. But, if we could do it here, that would be better.

These are just a few thoughts that may or may not work.

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Paul Arden
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Re: Instructors platform

#14

Post by Paul Arden » Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:53 pm

Hi Rex,

Ok so both you and Bart have suggested a similar route. Ie post a video, look for faults, stick them in order and work through them one at a time. And I agree that’s how it’s often considered. I personally don’t do it that way. It doesn’t work well IMO. I’ve certainly tried it and yes, sometimes absolutely this is the thing to do but more often than not it can be like banging my head against a brick wall :)

I more often build parallel techniques. It’s far more effective to build an alternative cast/technique that is new and break it down and develop that AND THEN apply the relevant points to the existing cast problems. This is much easier and more sensible than it sounds and because most casters have one default stroke, at the outset I split it into two; accuracy and open stance distance.

That approach I use for all my teaching. But I also take a long term view. While it’s important to always take 1-2 steps forward in every lesson (epiphanies if you like) it’s more important to organise the long term structure.

This is going to take me a lot longer to explain than a short post here. I’m not even sure I can do it by next week but I will start writing it. It’s important however that I do so because it changes how you approach a student and look at problems.

Cheers, Paul
It's an exploration; bring a flyrod.

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RexW
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Re: Instructors platform

#15

Post by RexW » Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:57 pm

Thanks Paul. I look forward to reading your thoughts.

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bartdezwaan
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Re: Instructors platform

#16

Post by bartdezwaan » Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:44 pm

Thanks for your input Rex.

Paul. I don’t propose any particular route.
Whatever your teaching plan, at a certain point you want your student to do something. If you can’t get him to do it, you might want help.

Cheers, Bart

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Paul Arden
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Re: Instructors platform

#17

Post by Paul Arden » Thu Oct 14, 2021 4:44 am

The worst situation to find yourself in with a student is try to change something but for the change not to work or indeed for the student to go backwards. So you try a different way of fixing the same issue and the same thing happens. And then you try again and yet it still gets worse… and worse… and worse…

Student feels unhappy, instructor feels very unhappy. Basically you’re both in hole now and everyone feels incompetent. We have all been there.

But the problem is the method. Ie taking “faults” in turn and trying to fix them one by one. Sometimes you can do it. But other times you simply run aground.

The fact is that you can’t fix every little issue in a lesson. You can’t expect to climb to the top of the mountain in one hour. If you are traveling a single lane highway and it’s blocked, then you are not going anywhere. That’s why you need multiple parallel lanes. It’s why we build practise drills to reinforce key areas along the way and to unblock the lane *between* lessons.

When you find a blockage, simply change lanes :cool: And then figure out a nice homework assignment that they can work though at their own leisure and without the pressure of you being there. That’s where you get to test yourself! The very worst thing you can do is to turn a road bump into a major accident.

You have to remember of course that it’s mainly force application we are teaching. And there is not one force application. Broadly we have squeeze stop, stopless and pull-back. But even how we apply force to the grip varies between casts. Often the issue can be the contact force/feel between the various parts of the hand and the cork. That – and how they use their body – is what we teach. Everything else they can find in a book.

So here is something I use often. When I have a student doing something different, I ask them to teach me what they are doing. As they teach me I will break it down and ask them questions “to make sure I’ve got it right”, but what I’m really doing is asking them to fully research their own cast in a way that they probably never have before. When we get to the sticking point I will offer a way out of it.

Cheers, Paul
It's an exploration; bring a flyrod.

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bartdezwaan
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Re: Instructors platform

#18

Post by bartdezwaan » Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:43 am

Very well spoken Paul.
It all makes perfect sense.

Now I need help with a student. Where do I go? :D

Cheers, Bart

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Paul Arden
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Re: Instructors platform

#19

Post by Paul Arden » Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:33 am

I’m sure you could post a question here and you’ll be given a variety of options to try. Personally I like “problem students” :D It’s like trying to solve a jigsaw puzzle and very satisfying when you do. Often the problem students ultimately become your best students! I would definitely tell them that. *

Can you repeat what your student is doing down to the smallest detail? Ie what goes through his mind, where he is looking, what he is trying to accomplish, what he is feeling at every point of the cast?

Cheers, Paul

* edit: maybe not in those words exactly :p More like the harder we climb the stronger we get or something like that. Telling them they are a “problem student” is never a good idea :laugh:
It's an exploration; bring a flyrod.

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andrewparkeruk
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Re: Instructors platform

#20

Post by andrewparkeruk » Thu Oct 21, 2021 11:27 pm

RexW wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 5:10 pm
Here's an idea. Rather than posting student videos, any of us could post a video of ourselves casting different faults. For example, post a video of Creep. Then let's start a discussion that begins with the question of "what is the fault"? Then move to a discussion of "what could you tell the student to correct the fault "? Then we could have an open discussion about the video. It's a video of a casting fault so nobody has to worry about being criticized for their casting and you would not need permission to post it.
@RexW your great suggestion has made me think

Rather than generic faults and fixes, me trying to accurately reproduce a student’s casting fault, for video, would probably give me a better understanding of what it was they were actually doing, and maybe get me closer to fixing the issue: a lightbulb moment

Bart I’m not suggesting you haven’t already done this 😊

Andrew

Andrew

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