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Causes of tailing loops

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Graeme H
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Re: Causes of tailing loops

#21

Post by Graeme H » Thu Jun 23, 2022 9:26 am

Lasse Karlsson wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 7:28 am
Hi Graeme

I recon no one will have conniptions (had to look that word up, thanks 🤣) if you do not use the word concave in your explanation.

...

Good luck on your test!

Cheers
Lasse
Thanks on both.

That answer is pretty much what I'm doing but also using a visual cue that is imprinting the verbal information. That makes me very happy. :D

Cheers,
Graeme
FFi CCI

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Walter
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Re: Causes of tailing loops

#22

Post by Walter » Thu Jun 23, 2022 12:34 pm

Back when I was taking the test the word concave was pretty much required but then people started thinking in frames of reference. Just as the loop can be laser sharp to one observer and several feet wide to another the concave/convex path depends on the point of view of the observer. It is also subjective to the observer - it’s a 2 dimensional object so one side of the curve is convex and the other side of the line is concave whenever there is a bend in the line. Bruce had a pretty good expression I think - the dipping path of the rod tip.

Has wave become acceptable? I know some branded it as SL heresy but others accepted it quickly. Any expression that has partial acceptance is to be avoided like the plague.
"There can be only one." - The Highlander. :pirate:

PS. I have a flying tank. Your argument is irrelevant.

PSS. How to generate a climbing loop through control of the casting stroke is left as a (considerable) exercise to the reader.

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Graeme H
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Re: Causes of tailing loops

#23

Post by Graeme H » Thu Jun 23, 2022 12:52 pm

Hi Walter,

It's that 2D piece of string that makes me avoid using the word "concave" if I can, for the very same reasons you've pointed out. It's valid for describing surfaces of a volume but not the shape of a curve. Unfortunately, I don't think "dipping fly leg" works either, since it's entirely possible to throw a tailing loop in a horizontally oriented loop. In that case, the fly leg still has a wave that brings the line closer to the rod leg and away again.

I think the phrase "wavy line path" for the fly leg might work if we want to avoid using the word "wave" for the tail.

I use the concept of the loop as a wave when I am teaching my students but I don't see any reason to bring it up in the exam. (Slack is the enemy of a cast and tension is the friend of the loop, and that's about as far as I'll go in the exam's teaching section.)

If specifically asked in Section 3, I'll discuss transverse waves, but I don't expect a question out of the blue if I've never mentioned it on the day.

Cheers,
Graeme
FFi CCI

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Paul Arden
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Re: Causes of tailing loops

#24

Post by Paul Arden » Thu Jun 23, 2022 1:17 pm

I’d just tell them how it really is, Graeme. If they ask of course. They can’t fail you for being right. But keep it simple at first. A drawing or tip and line path demonstrated on the ground goes a long way.

Cheers mate, good luck and have fun,
Paul
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Lasse Karlsson
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Re: Causes of tailing loops

#25

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Thu Jun 23, 2022 1:48 pm

Hi Walter

Don't know if wave has become acceptable, I use wavy to describe the tippath, and rarely talk about loops.

When I sat my mci, I said the tip had to dip. When I sat my ci two days prior, I said concave, convex and straight as ways to describe the tippath for different loop shapes. Theres a difference between teaching analogies and reality 🙂

Cheers
Lasse
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Jonathan
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Re: Causes of tailing loops

#26

Post by Jonathan » Fri Jun 24, 2022 9:35 pm

Jonathan wrote:
Wed Jun 22, 2022 8:18 pm
May I then ask - is it possible to cast a tailing loop without, at some point during the casting stroke, having a "concave" path of the rod tip (by concave I mean the rod tip dropping below the "straight line" and then raising up again)?
I rather foresaw some discussion on my choice of words and hence used quotation marks on the "suspect" words in my original post. However I think my question is fairly clear. Thanks for addressing it Lasse.

Some seventeen posts later I think the answer is "No" (which was my own conclusion) - it is not possible to cast a tailing loop without at some point in the casting stroke having a "wavy" / "concave" path where the rod tip drops and then raises up again (I do not think two directions alone is sufficient for a tailing loop - the two directions must be down then up).

Is there any other way?

Thanks

Jon

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Lasse Karlsson
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Re: Causes of tailing loops

#27

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Fri Jun 24, 2022 9:39 pm

Hi Jon

Why do you think it has to go up, and is it accelerating the line when going up?

Cheers
Lasse
Your friendly neighbourhood flyslinger


It makes no difference at all whether you are in a fishing environment or on a casting court. Technique transcends all casting environments, irrespective of what, and where, those environments exist.

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Paul Arden
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Re: Causes of tailing loops

#28

Post by Paul Arden » Sat Jun 25, 2022 2:57 am

Hi Jon,

I used to talk about a “buckle” in the tip path, which is effectively the same thing. I suppose serpentine might be clearer. Or an analogy like hitting a pothole.

Cheers, Paul
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Paul Arden
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Re: Causes of tailing loops

#29

Post by Paul Arden » Sat Jun 25, 2022 11:16 am

It has to go up Lasse to make the wave. And yes I would think it must be accelerating. Do you agree?

Cheers, Paul
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Re: Causes of tailing loops

#30

Post by Mangrove Cuckoo » Sat Jun 25, 2022 2:20 pm

Graeme,

FWIW... I think your responses are spot on, but my opinion is probably worthless as it has been a long time since I was involved.

Out of curiosity, where are you sitting the test, and is this your first try?
"Technique is the proof of your seriousness"

Wallace Stevens

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