PLEASE NOTE: In order to post on the Board you need to have registered. To register please email paul@sexyloops.com including your real name and username. Registration takes less than 24hrs, unless Paul is fishing deep in the jungle!

## The various qualifications

Moderators: Paul Arden, Bernd Ziesche, Lasse Karlsson

Paul Arden
Posts: 12207
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:20 am
Location: Belum Rainforest
Contact:

### The various qualifications

I thought it would be interesting to have a thread on comparing the different organisations examining casting (and/or fishing) instructors; the skills and teaching requirements, costs, renewal fees, websites, how to go about it and so on. I'm often asked about this stuff and I'm not up-to-date, so a thread I can link to would be a good idea.

To start with, what do we have? IFF, AAPGAI, GAIA, SANA, SGAIC, EFFA. Also we had STANIC. Do we still have REFFIS, Fishcoach? I think that there is also an AAPGAI-Ireland. Spain has an association too - I was a member - but I think that they reformed/renewed a few years ago? And there are two associations in Italy? I'm assuming that on the Board, or certainly among Sexyloops readers, we have members of all of them.

Also since a lot of these associations have changed over the years eg FFF > FFF-I > IFF. I think this should be mentioned.

THANKS!!!
Paul
It's an exploration; bring a flyrod.

Flycasting Definitions

Graeme H
Posts: 1632
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:54 pm
Location: Perth, Western Australia

### Re: The various qualifications

FFF went to IFFF and is now FFi (Fly Fishers International).

Membership annual cost for most is US$35. I pay a 3 year version for US$90.

Becoming an instructor comes in three flavours. Certified Casting Instructor, Master Casting Instructor and Two Handed Casting instructor. The latter two require the CCI as a prerequisite level of certification. I can't remember the cost two of them, but the MCI is currently US$400 to sit and an extra nominal amount in administration after you get it.$50? All those details are in the links I've posted.

Once a person gets their MCI, they can also go on for examiner status (in two levels) which requires ongoing upkeep of knowledge and skills which they call the Examiner Development Program. If the MCI chooses not to be an examiner, the EDP is not required.

Cheers,
Graeme
FFi CCI

Will
Posts: 279
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:44 pm

### Re: The various qualifications

Hiya

SANA isn’t a qualification, it’s the governing body for game fishing in Scotland.

FAQs on SGAIC (Scottish Game Angling Instructor Certificate) are here.

Cheers.

Will
Lineslinger
Barrio Pro-team
SGAIC
AAPGAI

"The only advice it is necessary to give the angler… is to avoid any approach to foppery, as trout have the most thorough contempt for a fop…”
WC Stewart

Lasse Karlsson
Posts: 3655
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:40 pm
Location: There, and back again
Contact:

### Re: The various qualifications

Graeme H wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 7:11 am
FFF went to IFFF and is now FFi (Fly Fishers International).

Membership annual cost for most is US$35. I pay a 3 year version for US$90.

Becoming an instructor comes in three flavours. Certified Casting Instructor, Master Casting Instructor and Two Handed Casting instructor. The latter two require the CCI as a prerequisite level of certification. I can't remember the cost two of them, but the MCI is currently US$400 to sit and an extra nominal amount in administration after you get it.$50? All those details are in the links I've posted.

Once a person gets their MCI, they can also go on for examiner status (in two levels) which requires ongoing upkeep of knowledge and skills which they call the Examiner Development Program. If the MCI chooses not to be an examiner, the EDP is not required.

Cheers,
Graeme
Hi Graeme

Just a quick correction, THCI does not require a CCI level to take it, you just have to sit the written test and workshop, which will both be included if you are not a CCI when taking the THCI
And there's three examiner levels, but the last requires you to be MCI and THCI.

Otherwise nice overview!

Cheers
Lasse
Level 3 examiner

http://www.karlssonflyfishing.com

***Bring Mark back!!!!!! ***

Flybye
Posts: 112
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:42 pm
Location: south coast GB
Contact:

### Re: The various qualifications

Apgai, stanic,sgaic, Nca, and Reffis all became Gaia then some of Apgia became aapgai. Gaia started Gaic and retained Apgai. Then Aapgia invented a masters (for old apgai's ?) and a provisional for wanna be apgais( or aapgia's), FFF lassie has described their enlarged qualification port folio.
No idea what happen to PGA or EFF. All very confusing for anyone not already involved and pretty much alphabet soup for the beginer. As far as i know, All are private club awards, none are officially recognised by anybody but themselves. Most of the guys all know and respect each other, some think themselves a cut above but thats human nature.
TK

Paul Arden
Posts: 12207
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:20 am
Location: Belum Rainforest
Contact:

### Re: The various qualifications

It's an exploration; bring a flyrod.

Flycasting Definitions

Boisker
Posts: 388
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2016 7:30 pm

### Re: The various qualifications

Probably a tricky one to answer, but I think some of you are qualified with more than one organisation... are there any particular strengths and weaknesses between the differing orgs?
For those that are qualified with more than one organisation, knowing what you now know.... if you could only do one which would it be? Or are they all ‘equal’..... Again I guess it depends on what you want the qualification for

Lasse Karlsson
Posts: 3655
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:40 pm
Location: There, and back again
Contact:

### Re: The various qualifications

Paul sat four different ones, think he was given the fifth so he should be able to answer...

I've been in three different organisations, still in one of them, hope the two others have changed since I left, so can't comment on them at present.

Cheers
Lasse

http://www.karlssonflyfishing.com

***Bring Mark back!!!!!! ***

Boisker
Posts: 388
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2016 7:30 pm

### Re: The various qualifications

Thanks Lasse... I should have added, I wasn’t looking for people to rank them or infer one was weak etc, rather just an understanding of the differences between them. On paper the 2 I have looked at are superficially similar, with aapgai having a longer section on Spey casts.

I keep toying with trying to attain a qualification... purely for personal satisfaction / development, I can’t see me ever earning any £ from it. But I can’t even decide the best route to head off in

Paul Arden
Posts: 12207
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:20 am
Location: Belum Rainforest
Contact:

### Re: The various qualifications

Strengths and weaknesses. I think that there are two common reasons for joining. One is the wish to be a better fly caster and the other is the wish to teach. Weakness of the IFF is that many use it for the first reason. As an instructor association that is a weakness.

I passed STANIC trout in 96. That was actually a reasonable exam. I joined APGAI as it was then with Trout and Sea-Trout the following year. I didn’t really understand the levels of course because I only passed not administered.

In 2003ish? I first failed EFFF Masters and went back one year later and passed. Long story and rather boring.

Same timeframe passed CCI and MCI with FFF - went to the US for this, first to do so I believe. I have been given membership with Spanish association.

A few years back I passed the Trout and Sea Trout Masters at AAPGAI. Just because it looked fkin hard! Also I had great respect for the original Association of Professional Game Angling Instructors. There is another long and boring story that saw me out of that one.

I don’t think I would have done anything differently because I learned through them all. I’m not a member of any of them nowadays! I’m not very tolerant of annoying people and when you start getting involved in committees you find them!

I personally - and I’m in the minority for sure - always thought that CI should be professional or semi-professional club/shop level coach. That’s a higher pitch certainly than IFF. I’m not even sure that I would put MCI there, not because there aren’t instructors of that caliber but because I know where the minimum pass levels were. That’s changed a bit now and if they had all the Speys and included club level coaching skills that would be a fair standard.

Anyway I’m a bit like Gordy in the Physics section. But it’s not that I’m forceful, I think it’s because I have a long history of teaching, competitions and of course Sexyloops that for some reason my opinions come across more strongly. And so I get a wall of arguments that everything is sunny when it’s not. Interestingly the examiners qualification in the IFF is something I suggested in 2004 and I was told to forget it! But it was necessary because BOGs were examining and some of them were crap.

So strengths are that they will all help you become a better instructor. Weaknesses are internal politics that believe you me, you don’t want to get involved in! If I was to do it differently nowadays I would take the exam, pass the exam and then quit. I did this with EFFF and it was perfect.

Of course I’ve taught a lot of instructors. At least 150 to CI in person and I’ve no idea how’s many I’ve assisted. That’s been good and I’ve learned a great deal from that process. I still do so for that reason.

My biggest criticism is that there are thousands of professional fly fishing guides around the world. Very few of them are casting instructors. For me this is nuts. And on the other side there are a whole bunch of casting instructors who are very inexperienced fly fishers. There is a divergence there that makes no sense to me.

However if you are a guide I would absolutely recommend passing the CI of any association. The IFF is I think the cheapest and certainly good enough. AAPGAI and EFFA Is very much tougher as a caster for sure. I don’t know about GAIA but I imagine that’s approximately the same. Maybe the next generation coming into the associations will change the resistance wall of change. I would hope so! If you are looking to test your casting then take the Sexyloops challenge. This Wet Season I’ll organise that AND end up with an elite level that will really be a test and then you can avoid the bollocks.

Cheers, Paul
It's an exploration; bring a flyrod.

Flycasting Definitions