Teaching the jump roll?

[nicholasfmoore]

Hi all,

I was wondering what your favourite analogies were for teaching the jump roll? I quite like up the stairs and across the landing

All the best

Nick

[Paul Arden]

It’s funny, I don’t usually use analogies for that. For years I used to use a shepherd’s crook. But it looks nothing like this. So I’m surprised that worked.

Jump Roll is an interesting one to teach. It’s one of those where I teach the components, the faults, teach them how to teach themselves - and then I think they have to go away for a few hours (or indeed many more) and practise! They certainly don’t need me to tell them what they are doing wrong every cast while they improve, because they can see it

I find it much more interesting to teach people who already have a feel for it, because then you can really see some improvements. I always like the second lesson. And that’s going to be a solid lesson too - haul, power application, Speys... but then when you get to the Speys it’s shit again and they need a lot more practise time again. But then the next time it’s cool.

I guess we don’t get many people going right through this process in the single handed world. But I’m fortunate I get a few nowadays. It used to just be instructors but more and more now it’s very serious fishermen. It’s makes it real fun to teach!

Have you ever tried Way Yin’s method of teaching the jump roll by underpowering a Belgian Cast?

Cheers, Paul

[nicholasfmoore]

Hi Paul,

Oh that's a good one! Maybe the students thought it was a totally different shape?

It's always nice to see improvers/intermediates progress, especially when they 'really' want to learn. I know it took me almost a year and a half(!) to get consistently good with placing the anchor wherever i wanted, although to be fair i was practicing with my left and right hand, so it might have been quicker if i just practiced with one i'm not a fan of casting over my left shoulder with my right hand, it might be going back to the days when i did a lot of double handed work perhaps? I would always switch hands

They certainly don’t need me to tell them what they are doing wrong every cast while they improve, because they can see it

Absolutely! At least they can see the entire cast it's just like teaching the triangle method i suppose, as we aren't used to looking behind us when doing most things in life. That's why i like the concept of side casting and gradually raising the V up into the air (and even across the other shoulder).

I guess we don’t get many people going right through this process in the single handed world

I agree, Paul. Certainly not in the Stillwater side of things in the UK, perhaps in other places it is different. I do know a lot of people use spey moves on rivers with single handed rods, but i think it's mostly overhead. Some people i've spoken to have never even heard of a roll cast I don't know about you but i use the snake roll A LOT in stillwater fishing, especially when you have just cast out and a fish has topped to the left (or right) of you. The fish would have died by the time you put a fly near it with false casting

It is fun!

I have never even thought about that, Paul, that's an awesome (and simple) way of showing people how to do it! It reminds me a bit of Simons 'oozlem spey'. One advantage of this i can make out, is the angle of the incline in relation to a good anchor, if it's too flat or steep then you can see it clearly. What do you think? You'll have to untwist your line though

Incidentally for advanced students, how do you show how to create an epic 'V loop'? For me at least, it feels like a normal side cast with an abrupt stop but with much less speed so it doesn't fly into the air and you blow your anchor. What do you think?

All the best

Nick

[Paul Arden]

Back or forward? Back I think is tip path and force. Front is haul, tip path and force.

I think the front loop off a dynamic roll is very similar to delayed force on a distance cast. So much so in fact, that it’s very common for me to use the dynamic roll to teach this.

Cheers, Paul

[nicholasfmoore]

Hi Paul,

Yes meant both, sorry! Do you teach double hauling for very good students as well?

Yes, that's the feeling i get as well

All the best

Nick

[Paul Arden]

I do but I get my best results without hauling on the backcast. I think it’s because there is some loss of tension on the haul return. I mostly do it because it’s simpler and more natural to haul that way.

Cheers, Paul

[nicholasfmoore]

I see what you mean! Going fishing tomorrow, I think I'll have a play with your line and the MED for speys. I don't know if it's just me, but I feel like the thunderbolt is easier to Spey cast?

All the best

Nick

[Paul Arden]

Yes it is because the MED has a complex front section of the head that is slightly heavy. This is “to delay turnover” at distance. There is a discussion about it somewhere on the Board. Anyway this is the opposite to what you would ideally want for Spey casting. That said I’ve always been happy Spey casting the MED.

Cheers, Paul

[nicholasfmoore]

Absolutely, it is an outstanding line. Although i find myself using yours more and more now!

All the best

Nick

[Paul Arden]

“Mine” is really Jerry Siem’s. It is his original TCR taper.

Cheers, Paul