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That whuuumpin' feeling

Moderators: Paul Arden, Bernd Ziesche, Lasse Karlsson

John Waters
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Re: That whuuumpin' feeling

#11

Post by John Waters » Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:42 am

Agree Paul, it all starts from the ground up. That’s were the real learnings are.

Vive la difference,

John

nicholasfmoore
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Re: That whuuumpin' feeling

#12

Post by nicholasfmoore » Wed Sep 23, 2020 3:08 pm

Here is a nice GIF of Mel. :cool:
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mels-pulling-through.gif
mels-pulling-through.gif (160.37 KiB) Viewed 587 times
Nick M

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Carol
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Re: That whuuumpin' feeling

#13

Post by Carol » Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:45 pm

The .gif It looks much more like Paul's back slash-forward slash drawing than Hayes'. ;)

Very interesting all the different ways to attempt the break though. Has anyone tried having the student pull against the line (or rope) in the overhead position while you hold the line from behind? Having them focus on what it feels like, with their eyes closed. It wouldn't be the ultimate, but it might help get the break through. It is somewhat akin to which John Waters does with the band.
Carol
Because it's painful getting flies out of spruce trees.

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Re: That whuuumpin' feeling

#14

Post by Mangrove Cuckoo » Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:37 am

Just playing devil's advocate, but...

Why is finding the "strongest" position important?

It's a fly rod! If it's a 5 wt, we are talking 3 oz of rod and 0.3 oz of flyline head.
"Technique is the proof of your seriousness"

Wallace Stevens

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Lasse Karlsson
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Re: That whuuumpin' feeling

#15

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:08 pm

Because we're at the wrong end of the lever here 🙂

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Lasse
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John Waters
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Re: That whuuumpin' feeling

#16

Post by John Waters » Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:53 pm

The "strongest" position is both misleading and incorrect. It reminds me of the old analogy whereby the caster was asked where he/she would position their hand and arm if he/she was dragging a large weight behind them.

Equally irrelevant.

John

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Paul Arden
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Re: That whuuumpin' feeling

#17

Post by Paul Arden » Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:26 am

I don’t think it’s so much about strength as finding a nice throwing action. We adjust the amount of body movement to the distance being cast. To learn to cast left handed I first practised throwing stones left handed - and still do. Short like a dart, long like a rock. Very heavy tackle for me is more like a shot putt :D and of course we have to throw back as well as forwards.

Most of what we think of regards Mel’s great teaching ability was focused on lower intermediate level casters. Instead of waving the rod around like a windscreen wiper to be more efficient.

Cheers, Paul
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John Waters
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Re: That whuuumpin' feeling

#18

Post by John Waters » Sat Sep 26, 2020 1:03 am

Paul Arden wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:26 am
I don’t think it’s so much about strength as finding a nice throwing action. We adjust the amount of body movement to the distance being cast.

Cheers, Paul
That sums it up well Paul. If you look at the world's best casters, past and present, most are of average height and build. Of course there are exceptions, men like Jon Tarantino, Steve Rajeff, Thomas Lexa, Jan Meszaros and others who I would describe as big, powerful men, but irrespective of body shape, all focus on speed.

John

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Bernd Ziesche
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Re: That whuuumpin' feeling

#19

Post by Bernd Ziesche » Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:16 pm

Hi Carol,
I use the term "whuuuuuump" to make the smooth acceleration hearable.
Comparing it with "wuuuuuuUUMP" for which I perform a too sudden burst of force application and thus creating a too sudden increase in rod bend close the end of the stroke = tailing issue.
Most students get that right immediately within no more than 1 to 3 minutes. When they have trained it for another 2 to 3 minutes I ask them to do the same exercise while increasing line speed (increasing force application) = making it a bit harder to stay within smooth acceleration. In the next step they learn to use a smaller arc (as it was in the beginning) for the just enough line speed.
If a student struggles in smoothness (usually it can happen with those who started without a lesson or with an improper one and then having a perfect memory for a too uneven force application) I cast together with them. A) I cast, they hold my rod hand and b) opposite. This way everyone gets it fast. Didn't have one student in many years who was still tailing after this pretty short exercise.
No more than 20 minutes max, mostly 5 to 10 minutes.
For a beginning here I leave out the power snap, since in my exp it works better to start with small and smooth wrist movements. PS comes later on in the lesson (day).
As Paul I believe this to be the most important core.
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Bernd
http://www.first-cast.de
The first cast is always the best cast.

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Paul Arden
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Re: That whuuumpin' feeling

#20

Post by Paul Arden » Mon Sep 28, 2020 4:39 pm

Generally, and I think where this is focussed student-wise, if you’re having problems teaching a woommph (ie a smooth acceleration) then often the answer is to shorten the line considerably from 30’ of flyline out the tip to 6 feet of flyline and work on false casting really nice loops with minimum power.

Tight loops, minimum force, narrow arc, grip, false casting, different planes, maybe even different trajectories. Then extend one foot at a time or one metre at a time. If the guy or girl can’t do that then you are making things unnecessarily complicated for both of you.

Same with Curve Casts. Start short, gradually go long.

I have people coming to lessons who have fly fished for 20 years and who have never tried to cast loops with only a few metres of line out the tip. Spend a few minutes on that, throw in Mel’s flicking a rod around without a line (bounce), bring in the elbow raise/drop when the fly leg clips the rod tip, and I guarantee you’ll save a bunch of time in the long run.

With 30’ of line you’re in second gear. The only time I start in second is when I’m thoroughly stuck in the mud! (We don’t get ice in Malaysia :p)

Cheers, Paul
It's an exploration; bring a flyrod.

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