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Changing task constraints

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John Waters
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Re: Changing task constraints

#91

Post by John Waters »

Hi Paul,

I have seen a video of Rick Hartman cast the 5 weight, very impressive. It is interesting that it evolved separately, one derivation via shooting head casting and one via Best of the West 5 weight. I think that speaks to its variability and applicability. Looking at the short narrow arc v wide arc stroke, I wonder what the comparative results were in the Best of the West events. I find it interesting given the trend to stiff rods in the Trout Distance and that it was used in the pre-graphite days when 42 gram lines were used, before the maximum line weight was reduced to 38 grams. Innovation will always drive change. Be interesting to see what comes next.

John
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Paul Arden
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Re: Changing task constraints

#92

Post by Paul Arden »

Hi John,

It was an indoor event and but often at altitude (Denver was the finals). The format was different. One practise shot, which you could score if you wanted, plus three more shots (two if you counted the first). That’s different from the normal 2-3 minute machine-gun approach we use.

Winning Distances often around 115’+. Rick was very good in practise throwing consistently 120’ plus but struggled to match this in comp. Was interesting to look at Steve’s scores because they would usually go increasingly further eg 108’, 112’, 115’. That told me quite a lot about Steve and impressed me.

I think the difference between now and then is that there are a hell of a lot more guys who are competitive in this event. I still prefer the old Sexyloops Shoot-out style event we use. It just seems fairer for everyone to use the same gear and more challenging because sometimes it’s mismatched and terrible :D

Rick also told me he would get very good results 170ing the T38. Lasse uses it too. I’m quite sure it works, I just think that the main advantage of a 170 backcast is the longer carry, which for a DT or MED line is a necessity.

Is there any footage of the European Shooting Head 170?

Cheers, Paul
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Phil Blackmar
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Re: Changing task constraints

#93

Post by Phil Blackmar »

I have heard about Rick but never met him even tho he lives only 150 miles south of where I live. I've heard he is still actively guiding in Deep South Texas. According to his website he won the Best of the West (BOW) international competition 3 times, 2nd twice and won the (BOW) comps 11 times.
Paul-you spoke of his tight loops the next time you saw him. Since I've only watched videos of accomplished casters using the 170 style, isn't the loop big but pointed at the tip?

Also, were the lanes more narrow at those events than you cast in today? I've heard some of the reason for the results you saw were that he struggled keeping it in the lane tho his casts were long enough to have won the event.

John-perhaps the new revelations about distance casting will come from an accomplished caster studying the biomechanics of the casting stroke in relation to other throwing sports. I've heard there may be someone way down south in Australia doing just that......:) :)

Thanks
Phil
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Lasse Karlsson
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Re: Changing task constraints

#94

Post by Lasse Karlsson »

Hi Phil

The Backcast starts out big, then morphs tighter, the more linespeed, the tighter they get.



I suspect Rick initially threw more like Gunderson and then got it going with more linespeed.







The BOW lanes where 10 feet wide, not much when the line moves over 200 feet (fully straight backcast plus delivery) tiny error and it pops a few feet to the side.
Today we have up to 10 meter wide lanes outdoors makes a difference, unless you have sidevind :p


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Lasse
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Paul Arden
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Re: Changing task constraints

#95

Post by Paul Arden »

I’d recommend fishing with Rick any time, Phil. I’ve fished out there in his boat together with him and Bill Gammel a couple of trips now. He’s the man. We also fished together in Colorado. He’s a damned fine trout angler too. I wished I lived closer. Him and Bill were the reasons I drove from Montana to Texas. I really have to get back again because it’s been a long time now and some friends you just make for life.

Cheers, Paul
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John Waters
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Re: Changing task constraints

#96

Post by John Waters »

Hi Paul, Lasse and Phil,

You're right Paul, it is great to see so many casters who are experimenting and innovating. The more they do so the better for themselves and the sport. Who knows what the next decade will bring? Whatever the result of their passion to improve their performance, it will add to the knowledge bank and be transferable. Those Best of the West events would have been a lot of fun to experience. New events, new casters, indoor and outdoor, I envy your opportunity to discuss casting with those blokes.

Love your videos Lasse, I must get mine organised as you have done. I've got stuff on super 8 movie, cassette recordings and more modern formats (yes I know that will surprise those who know me, but I have now mastered the complicated art of pressing the "on" button on my iPad) which I will convert this year.

Rick has an impressive CV, Phil narrow lanes would be a challenge outdoors. Rick would be an interesting bloke to chat to.

John
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Re: Changing task constraints

#97

Post by Mangrove Cuckoo »

Wow!

That last video of Rick casting a TCX...

What an explosive haul!!! :pirate:
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John Waters
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Re: Changing task constraints

#98

Post by John Waters »

Hi Paul,

Whilst I've mastered the on button, that is as far as it goes. I've a video of the T38 - 170 technique but I can't upload it to Sexyloops. I'll email it to you.

John
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Paul Arden
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Re: Changing task constraints

#99

Post by Paul Arden »

Got it. Thanks John. It needs to go to YouTube or Vimeo first. A video uploader for Sexyloops would be a good idea. I’ll have a look into this, space might be an issue.

Thanks, Paul
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John Waters
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Re: Changing task constraints

#100

Post by John Waters »

No worries Paul, I first time I saw that 170 technique was in the early 80's in Europe, used by eastern European casters, but it was used well before then.

I must get familiar with 20th century technology, and hopefully move to the 21st after that.

John
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