PLEASE NOTE: In order to post on the Board you need to have registered. To register please email paul@sexyloops.com including your real name and username. Registration takes less than 24hrs, unless Paul is fishing deep in the jungle!
Is it worth getting CI designation?
Moderators: Paul Arden, Bernd Ziesche, Lasse Karlsson
Re: Is it worth getting CI designation?
The "Minimum Power" exercise is not mine. I can't remember who first showed it to me: it could have been Morsie (?). I take it further than the original lesson though, because I use it to explain how important tension is to make the loop (which is a wave ) travel through the string. I combine the explanation with some simple and effective demonstrations of how tension makes a wave travel faster through the medium and the lesson takes hold in the students' minds. (This goes back to that long thread last year about how understanding the loop as a wave helps me cast and teach more effectively. I've said all I need to say on that topic, so if you want to argue it, go back there and read the whole thread. )
The "Watch The Bend in the Rod" exercise came about after I was forced to examine what I do and compare it to what my student that day was doing. He is a very experienced fisherman (25+ years) who wanted to get his CCI. He would have failed the first task because every cast had "tailing tendencies", even though the legs rarely collided. Two and a half hours, trying every trick I had and we were getting nowhere due to his many years of doing the same thing. I stepped away and watched his rod, and then I watched mine. I noticed I could not follow his rod visually due to a sudden acceleration early in the casting stroke, whereas I could easily follow mine, even at my longest distance casting. I asked him to watch the rod at the top ferrule and "voila - no more tails!!!". I've since done it with most of my students (even beginners) and it's incredibly effective at producing close-to-perfect loops. (The reason is simple: it's the correct application of power because we are applying force consistently through the stroke until the stop. No sudden jerks or let-ups in force for the duration of the stroke.)
(I know some instructors watch the rod tip when looking for errors, but I'm asking my students to watch the bend in the rod because the bend in the rod is the visual manifestation of force from the hand. Keeping that bend consistent is keeping the force consistent. Later, when they really have control, they can play with increasing that force as the stroke progresses if they so desire.)
Cheers,
Graeme
The "Watch The Bend in the Rod" exercise came about after I was forced to examine what I do and compare it to what my student that day was doing. He is a very experienced fisherman (25+ years) who wanted to get his CCI. He would have failed the first task because every cast had "tailing tendencies", even though the legs rarely collided. Two and a half hours, trying every trick I had and we were getting nowhere due to his many years of doing the same thing. I stepped away and watched his rod, and then I watched mine. I noticed I could not follow his rod visually due to a sudden acceleration early in the casting stroke, whereas I could easily follow mine, even at my longest distance casting. I asked him to watch the rod at the top ferrule and "voila - no more tails!!!". I've since done it with most of my students (even beginners) and it's incredibly effective at producing close-to-perfect loops. (The reason is simple: it's the correct application of power because we are applying force consistently through the stroke until the stop. No sudden jerks or let-ups in force for the duration of the stroke.)
(I know some instructors watch the rod tip when looking for errors, but I'm asking my students to watch the bend in the rod because the bend in the rod is the visual manifestation of force from the hand. Keeping that bend consistent is keeping the force consistent. Later, when they really have control, they can play with increasing that force as the stroke progresses if they so desire.)
Cheers,
Graeme
FFi CCI
Re: Is it worth getting CI designation?
Hi Graeme,
You said you have the student watch the rod at the top ferrule. You also mentioned watching the bend. When you have a student watch the ferrule are they just watching it to see how fast it moves or are they watching the bend of the rod or both?
Thanks,
Ron
You said you have the student watch the rod at the top ferrule. You also mentioned watching the bend. When you have a student watch the ferrule are they just watching it to see how fast it moves or are they watching the bend of the rod or both?
Thanks,
Ron
FFI - CCI
- Paul Arden
- Site Admin
- Posts: 19585
- Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:20 am
- Location: Belum Rainforest
- Contact:
Re: Is it worth getting CI designation?
Min power is a really good exercise. I use it in conjunction with Mel’s bouncing a rod without the line exercise.
It goes like this Ron. Take a rod without the line and just bounce it gently backwards and forwards. You will feel the rod unloading and the rebounding counterflex under your hand. The movement is small, abrupt but not forced or too energetic. It’s more subtle.
Then string up a line. Try starting with only 10ft feet of flyline out the tip. Make the same movement but try to cast with so little effort that the loop doesn’t quite unroll. Then add a bit of effort so that it does. Then add a couple feet of line and repeat and so on. I call this “first gear” casting.
You will find at some point that the line collides with the rod tip. You can avoid this by lifting the elbow into the backcast and lowering it again on the forward cast, ie sending the backcast higher and the front cast lower, also we are rotating the casting arc forwards. You can then do the same thing focussed on accuracy targets in front and the imaginary bell in the air for the backcast.
It’s a really excellent teaching drill.
Thanks Graeme. I’ve passed this tip ferrule flex drill onto a student of mine who has been having some tendency to tail issues. I agree that this is an incredibly difficult issue to solve. Often it can be a backcast transition problem as well as a force application issue. I’ve never found a quick solution to this one; it eventually disappears but it always takes a lot of work. It will be very interesting to see if this solves the problem (he is otherwise an excellent caster!!).
Cheers, Paul
It goes like this Ron. Take a rod without the line and just bounce it gently backwards and forwards. You will feel the rod unloading and the rebounding counterflex under your hand. The movement is small, abrupt but not forced or too energetic. It’s more subtle.
Then string up a line. Try starting with only 10ft feet of flyline out the tip. Make the same movement but try to cast with so little effort that the loop doesn’t quite unroll. Then add a bit of effort so that it does. Then add a couple feet of line and repeat and so on. I call this “first gear” casting.
You will find at some point that the line collides with the rod tip. You can avoid this by lifting the elbow into the backcast and lowering it again on the forward cast, ie sending the backcast higher and the front cast lower, also we are rotating the casting arc forwards. You can then do the same thing focussed on accuracy targets in front and the imaginary bell in the air for the backcast.
It’s a really excellent teaching drill.
Thanks Graeme. I’ve passed this tip ferrule flex drill onto a student of mine who has been having some tendency to tail issues. I agree that this is an incredibly difficult issue to solve. Often it can be a backcast transition problem as well as a force application issue. I’ve never found a quick solution to this one; it eventually disappears but it always takes a lot of work. It will be very interesting to see if this solves the problem (he is otherwise an excellent caster!!).
Cheers, Paul
Re: Is it worth getting CI designation?
Hi Ron,
I ask them to take notice of the bend and how it is maintained through the stroke. I then ask them to reproduce the same in their rods.
I also put a piece of white medical tape on their rod for them to focus on.
Cheers, Graeme
FFi CCI
Re: Is it worth getting CI designation?
Thanks Paul. I hope and trust it will work for your student as effectively as it is working for mine.
Cheers, Graeme
Cheers, Graeme
FFi CCI
Re: Is it worth getting CI designation?
Hi Graeme
I've been chewing over why this should work, particularly for fixing tails. When I use Marks variation of this method, the student slows down their stroke, regardless of whether they are a beginner or more experienced caster and the result is often an underpowered cast. I don't bother about sorting that out, the speed comes back as they become more proficient. I suspect that the student is consciously processing the novel task that has been set and that it is the increase in workload bringing the fix rather than the specifics of the task. I think having something real to focus on works more consistently than flicking apples off the rod tip because some students are like me and lack imagination.
Happy to hear any thoughts on this.
Regards
Vince
“Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius — and a lot of courage — to move in the opposite direction.” — Ernst F. Schumacher
https://www.sexyloops.com/index.php/ps/ ... f-coaching
https://www.sexyloops.com/index.php/ps/ ... f-coaching
Re: Is it worth getting CI designation?
I have no need to argue with you, which implies that I do not need to wade into that thread either. By emphasizing tension I think you mean "lifting the loop," right?Graeme H wrote: ↑Thu Mar 03, 2022 7:31 am The "Minimum Power" exercise is not mine. I can't remember who first showed it to me: it could have been Morsie (?). I take it further than the original lesson though, because I use it to explain how important tension is to make the loop (which is a wave ) travel through the string. I combine the explanation with some simple and effective demonstrations of how tension makes a wave travel faster through the medium and the lesson takes hold in the students' minds. (This goes back to that long thread last year about how understanding the loop as a wave helps me cast and teach more effectively. I've said all I need to say on that topic, so if you want to argue it, go back there and read the whole thread. )
I guess your task labelled "make a loop that fails to reach the nail knot while keeping the rod tip high" targets
- minimum power
- the stop
- importance of tension (& lifting the loop)
- small arc size.
Great story of method development on the field. I am sure you got one happy customer.Graeme H wrote: ↑Thu Mar 03, 2022 7:31 am The "Watch The Bend in the Rod" exercise came about after I was forced to examine what I do and compare it to what my student that day was doing. He is a very experienced fisherman (25+ years) who wanted to get his CCI. He would have failed the first task because every cast had "tailing tendencies", even though the legs rarely collided. Two and a half hours, trying every trick I had and we were getting nowhere due to his many years of doing the same thing. I stepped away and watched his rod, and then I watched mine. I noticed I could not follow his rod visually due to a sudden acceleration early in the casting stroke, whereas I could easily follow mine, even at my longest distance casting. I asked him to watch the rod at the top ferrule and "voila - no more tails!!!". I've since done it with most of my students (even beginners) and it's incredibly effective at producing close-to-perfect loops. (The reason is simple: it's the correct application of power because we are applying force consistently through the stroke until the stop. No sudden jerks or let-ups in force for the duration of the stroke.)
I am truly intrigued by this task. I can see that it targets
- slow start
- constant acceleration
- and something else, which I can not quite label, but it would be something along the lines of "slow acceleration," since you are asking to keep tension at a high point in the rod.
How do you introduce late rotation?
Thanks,
Jarmo
Re: Is it worth getting CI designation?
My apologies Jarmo. I know you personally don't want to argue that old point. My use of the word "you" was unintentional and meant in broader terms. I should have said "if someone would like to argue, please read that thread."
Yep, you got it. It's exactly from our discussions last year, when we discussed "lifting the loop."By emphasizing tension I think you mean "lifting the loop," right?
Actually, the main target is overcoming the incorrect application of power (in all its forms.) EVERY casting fault has incorrect application of power at its root cause in one way or another, and when people are really pumping that rod, there are numerous opportunities to apply power incorrectly. By slowing the whole thing down, most of those opportunities are removed.I guess your task labelled "make a loop that fails to reach the nail knot while keeping the rod tip high" targetsWould that be approximately correct?
- minimum power
- the stop
- importance of tension (& lifting the loop)
- small arc size.
However, I don't tell the students that until after they have successfully achieved the task. All I'm asking them to do is make a really slow cast (with a high rod tip). I'm not telling them:
- To do it smoothly
- How large their casting arc should be
- To remove any slack
- How much power to use (other than to say "Too much power")
- How they should hold their rod,
- How they should set their stance
- Where the elbow needs to be
- Where they should focus their attention
It turns out that's nearly impossible to throw a tail or a wide loop with this task, so they see great loops coming with almost no effort required. As a student, they see an immediate and dramatic improvement in their casting and they think their teacher is a genius.
Regarding tension: yes, we circle back to the importance of tension at this point in the lesson. Once they have achieved the task, we talk about why I told them to keep the rod tip high. I show them that when I drop the rod tip, the task is really easy to achieve, and that in fact, when I was showing them what the loop should do when you succeed in the task, I actually dropped the rod tip myself while they were watching the loop (it's that hard to achieve that I cheat when I demonstrate it. )
I (literally) take it a step further to show them that when all tension is removed from the rod leg, the loop fails and collapses in mid air. (I do it by running forward after I've made a cast, creating a pile of slack in the rod leg). This is a very dramatic effect and really drives the point home.
Then I show them the opposite effect: That gently lifting the rod tip while the loop unrolls makes the loop travel faster along the fly line, so we need even less effort to complete a cast once that "lifting the loop" move is done. At the very least, they need to keep the tip up longer. (In terms of considering the loop as a wave, I'm adding tension to the medium and increasing the frequency of the wave, making the wave travel faster through the medium. I have not yet had one student fail to understand this concept.)
This one really is targeting the correct application of power by focusing the students' attention on the one visual representation of force we have in a cast. That is, the amount of bend we have in the rod. It does so by also using a trick of our perception of motion, in that we instantaneously and continuously predict the location of moving objects so that we can track them visually. If the caster "jerks" the rod, interrupting the predicted movement of the rod blank, we momentarily lose visual tracking of the rod. That's an indication we're applying power incorrectly (because power is a function of force and time).Great story of method development on the field. I am sure you got one happy customer.
I am truly intrigued by this task. I can see that it targetsWould this interpretation be on the right track.
- slow start
- constant acceleration
- and something else, which I can not quite label, but it would be something along the lines of "slow acceleration," since you are asking to keep tension at a high point in the rod.
I tell them to "put a bend in the rod at the tape and keep it there as long as possible". By giving the student the task of tracking their rod's bend, they must smooth out the application of power to successfully complete the task.
After they've completed the task, we discuss what was happening when they did it correctly, how it felt, why it led to better acceleration of the line and thus why the tip's path was more desirable (SLP and the "5 Essentials".)
As they attempt to repeat the task at longer line lengths, we discuss how the casting arc (the "piece of pizza" [thanks Morsie ]) must also be moved through space to keep that bend in the rod for a longer period. I demonstrate how I can keep it there longer when I translate the rod first, and them ask them to repeat.How do you introduce late rotation?
I also demonstrate that this method of watching the bend in the rod works even with a 90' cast. Regardless of cast length and rod speed, we can visually track the tape when the power is applied correctly, and we can't track it when the cast is faulty. That makes it a fantastic task to teach casting with, because it's instant visual feedback indicating a shit cast.
cheers,
Graeme
FFi CCI
Re: Is it worth getting CI designation?
I believe you are correct Vince. The tasks are tangible and achievable without invoking esoteric concepts. Certainly, I have never flicked an apple off my rod tip!VGB wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 9:06 am I've been chewing over why this should work, particularly for fixing tails. When I use Marks variation of this method, the student slows down their stroke, regardless of whether they are a beginner or more experienced caster and the result is often an underpowered cast. I don't bother about sorting that out, the speed comes back as they become more proficient. I suspect that the student is consciously processing the novel task that has been set and that it is the increase in workload bringing the fix rather than the specifics of the task. I think having something real to focus on works more consistently than flicking apples off the rod tip because some students are like me and lack imagination.
Happy to hear any thoughts on this.
And they work because they are teaching the correct application of force without ever needing to use that term, with all its inherent opportunities for misunderstanding. They are things to be done, not ideas to grasp.
Cheers,
Graeme
FFi CCI
Re: Is it worth getting CI designation?
Implicit vs Explicit learning
“Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius — and a lot of courage — to move in the opposite direction.” — Ernst F. Schumacher
https://www.sexyloops.com/index.php/ps/ ... f-coaching
https://www.sexyloops.com/index.php/ps/ ... f-coaching