Weight transfer/ sequential blocking

[VGB]

I know you are Paul — but some people enjoy being part of a clique. It makes them feel impotent

IDGASWVT

It’s just sales jargon Ron, so we can charge more. It’s just like the old door to door blokes that flogged hoovers. If you shook hands with them, you had to count your fingers afterwards.

[Graeme H]

For years I’ve been seeing VGB written here. I have no idea if I should buy some of it.

[VGB]

To save Ron Googling it, it stands for Very Good Boy. It’s what my mother used to call me but she always wanted a dog.

Regards

Vince

[RSalar]

To save Ron Googling it, it stands for Very Good Boy. It’s what my mother used to call me but she always wanted a dog.

Regards

Vince

I won’t spell out all of the iterations I came up with. Very Good Boy was not one of them!

Cheers

Ron

[VGB]

At least you tried to find out the meaning of a TLA, so that’s progress

[RSalar]

I have much to learn, O’ great master of wisdom

Are you sure it’s not Very Garrulous Brainiac?

[jarmo]

When I look at the backcast only from the forearm perspective it’s easy, “imagine that your forearm (damn, internal!) strikes a pillow [or something solid] and the wrist flips over as if you were throwing car keys high over your shoulder. (Or ‘spring’ them towards the bell). That forearm block I think is crucial to good technique.

I want to return to this idea of wrist turnover coinciding with "the stop."

I am not yet sure of all the ramifications, but already at this point this technique improves my casting in two ways. First, it enables me to pull the rod better. That is because the wrist does not work during what I would call "the main acceleration stage," so I can have a very loose grip with open fingers etc. Today I was casting no-haul tight loops @ 55' with ease by pulling better.

Second, wrist turnover at stop removes all the strain from my wrist at the distances I am working with (non-competitive). Basically, after I have cast for one hour non-stop, I feel no fatigue in my forearm or hand muscles.

But this does take some serious practise. Especially when fishing, it is easy to fall back to the old ways.

So, thanks again Paul!

[Paul Arden]

Cheers mate. It is very interesting because it is often the opposite of what is being taught. Hell it’s the opposite of what I’ve taught, especially to beginners, many times!

What I can get from it is very high line speed on the backcast with very little physical effort. If I want more speed I just flip the wrist faster. Teaching-wise it’s a great way to teach timing of the double haul to a more advanced student.

This motion I’ve ingrained by casting at targets and then shifting between closed and open stance. The shift from closed to open by simply shifting weight, twisting the torso and keeping the rest of the movement the same, is for most people a complete transformation.

I think what a lot of people think of as being the “stop” is in fact a flick of the wrist, but because they think of it as a stop they don’t maximise what they could be getting out of this movement.

Generally the problem I see, that is usually called “too much wrist”, is often not too much wrist; instead it’s too much arm movement prior to the wrist. In other words a poor forearm finishing position.

John’s use of the word “blocking” has had quite a profound impact on me. It sounds like it’s having the same impact on you that it has for me and quite a few of my students over the past few years. Great!!

I can’t remember if I mentioned this. I tried introducing it to beginners a few times now. One chap got a lot out of it. He is a highly proficient spin angler. But a relative beginner fly fisherman, it wasn’t his first time but he didn’t have the flycasting basics properly in place. I spent some time with him on the Triangle Method and got him double hauling. And then introduced the PUALD drill with this blocking forearm pattern. Amazing transformation! His back loops were like high speed chisels. And he naturally put in into his forward cast too soon after. So that was a success story for a relative beginner.

A month ago I wondered what would happen if I introduced the PUALD drill first, before the Triangle Method. Non-paying students. This is what happens Disaster!!

So I really don’t know when exactly to introduce it. Early on it’s more about loops and exploring stuff anyway. But intermediates (my definition of Intermediate is pretty much everyone who is not a beginner!), if I have such a course I start to introduce it somewhere in the first three lessons.

When I teach I don’t say “this is how to do it”, instead I always say “this is something else you can try”.

Gary mentioned a few months ago about casters local to him who turned their thumb inwards at the end of the Forward Casting Stroke. We discussed this and I said I’ve never seen it. Well funnily enough I have a new student from Tennessee this week and this is precisely what he was doing. I asked if it was from pitching a baseball (my thoughts to Gary) and he said no! So I have no idea what it is.

Anyway to the point, my “fix” for this was not a fix. It was instead an expansion by offering alternatives. So I showed him four alternative ways to turn the rod over (squeezing the lower three fingers ie pulling, stabbing over with the thumb, Torque Twist [very important in this case] which is rotation in the opposite direction to what he was doing and finally the Cradle Grip) and as part of his practise this week I want him to take his time exploring the differences between all five

Now for me all five have uses. I use them all myself and favour certain ones for certain applications. (I only turn the thumb inwards for a specific underpowered cast, but still…)

And that’s what I think about forearm blocking/wrist flip. It’s certainly not the only way to do it. It’s an alternative method that offers a gear shift.

Fuck that was a long answer. I must have written a very short FP today

Cheers!!
Paul

[jarmo]

Greetings Paul.

What I can get from it is very high line speed on the backcast with very little physical effort.

For me, also, tight loops consistently. It seems to combine smooth translation/acceleration using larger muscles with low-power late rotation using smaller muscles. Stable power from larger muscles, low power from smaller muscles: easy to be consistent.

The shift from closed to open by simply shifting weight, twisting the torso and keeping the rest of the movement the same, is for most people a complete transformation.

This is another interesting "development." What would you say is the reason that good tracking can be maintained in this shift from closed to open?

Generally the problem I see, that is usually called “too much wrist”, is often not too much wrist; instead it’s too much arm movement prior to the wrist. In other words a poor forearm finishing position.

I can understand how this could happen: the caster tries to speed up all movement at the end of the stroke. I have certainly done it. What "blocking" seems to enable is (near) constant acceleration, and then speed on top of that. So with this change, I am only "hitting it" at the end with the wrist/fingers, and even that does not feel like hitting since it is a low-power move.

A month ago I wondered what would happen if I introduced the PUALD drill first, before the Triangle Method. Non-paying students. This is what happens Disaster!!

So I really don’t know when exactly to introduce it. Early on it’s more about loops and exploring stuff anyway. But intermediates (my definition of Intermediate is pretty much everyone who is not a beginner!), if I have such a course I start to introduce it somewhere in the first three lessons.

When I teach I don’t say “this is how to do it”, instead I always say “this is something else you can try”.

Makes sense. I can not teach at the moment (hopefully soon again), but I have already started to wonder where and how this will fit in.

So I showed him four alternative ways to turn the rod over (squeezing the lower three fingers ie pulling, stabbing over with the thumb, Torque Twist [very important in this case] which is rotation in the opposite direction to what he was doing and finally the Cradle Grip) and as part of his practise this week I want him to take his time exploring the differences between all five

Now for me all five have uses. I use them all myself and favour certain ones for certain applications. (I only turn the thumb inwards for a specific underpowered cast, but still…)

And that’s what I think about forearm blocking/wrist flip. It’s certainly not the only way to do it. It’s an alternative method that offers a gear shift.

I see it currently as a most valuable add-on to my other ways of turning the rod over.

Have fun!

Jarmo

[Paul Arden]

This is another interesting "development." What would you say is the reason that good tracking can be maintained in this shift from closed to open?

Tracking and body alignment to the cast. Look at the way most people cast. They bring their casting hand around their body. Two problems. As the distance increases the angle the tip path makes to the body changes. This undoubtedly leads to tracking problems. Every cast is at a different angle!

The other issue is that the force is being applied at an angle to the body. Compare this to when the body turns and the hand comes back straight, in this case the hand travels straight through the shoulder position. This can only occur because the shoulder has turned out the way. And then on the forward cast the hand travels back through the shoulder position and the entire body gets in behind the cast. That’s got to be better. It’s better balanced, it’s more powerful, it’s straighter.

It’s a huge change to go from what they are usually doing to this movement. But if we go Closed Stance Accuracy -> Open Stance Distance it’s not only accomplishable but they will improve their short line game as well.

And then I usually add the 170’s stopless backhand as a shot delivery into the wind, as a prelude to the 170. I always like contrasts when teaching. Contrasting the 170 to OSD improves both. I have a carry drill that compares one to the other while falsecasting. I have a student who comes to mind who I’ve been teaching for about 18 months. He did not really master the OSD until he learned the 170 (about a year ago). A lightbulb suddenly switched on.

There are a few possible reasons for that. One might be that with the 170 it’s easier to learn it off-vertical. And in which case you can see it all. With OSD it’s difficult to see it all and still remain in the correct position. But I actually think that the contrast between the strokes (and they feel totally different) helps develop each.

Certainly we have that gear change that blocking OSD gives us. But then we have another gear change into 170.

There is also the other side of the coin too. I know a lot of comp casters who have a strong 170 cast but poor OSD technique. When I’m teaching these guys I teach OSD. They are like “why? The 170 goes further!” There are two reasons. The first is we don’t pick up 90’ of line and what we do pick up needs to be under control from the get-go. Otherwise the first few casts are trying to control the line instead of lengthening it under control. The second reason is that “blocking” does actually exist in the 170 but it’s very difficult to find unless you learn both.

I wouldn’t talk to a beginner about any of that However if I was lucky enough to have a beginner on a longer course from the beginning, at some point when distance becomes the objective, I would try going to OSD blocking/wrist flip straight away. I don’t see any value in swinging the hand around the body for a distance cast. But it’s also possible that we have to learn this as part of our progression. Quite a lot of unknowns in there. I’m due to go and see the Orang Asli in Sungai Tiang soon. Seems like a good opportunity to experiment because this is about where they are.

Cheers, Paul