Curve casts in the MCI exam

[Lasse Karlsson]

Hi Lasse - would you fail someone who performed a svirgolato cast for this task?

Cheers.

Hi James

Does the svirgolato have a tailing loop in it?

And if it does, does it then follow the requirements set forth in the task?

If yes to 1, and no to 2, what would you want an examiner to say? Pass because the candidate chose a very hard cast for a task that is easier passed with a under powered loop on the side cast? Or fail because the candidate chose not to follow the requirements, and wanted to show of? I have yet to meet someone that can just pick up a rod and throw 45 feet of line from foot to fly in a svirgolato around a cone at 30 feet. But I don't get out much, and have only met one that really could do it with any consistency at shorter distances, and only after a bit of warm up, hope to see it wednesday evening, can see you practiced

Cheers
Lasse

[Walter]

A bit off topic but since we are talking about fishing casts vs casts for the exam and also since presenting on the backcast and changing casting planes has also been brought up, I teach beginners how to present on the back cast early in their lessons. There are two reasons for this. The first is that it teaches students how to watch their backcast so they can see what their loops look like on the backcast. I’m very much in the of the belief that vision is very important when learning how to cast a fly. The second reason is that it’s a way of casting with a crosswind which was one of the most frustrating things I found when beginning fly fishing. Handling crosswinds is one of the reasons I teach changing rod planes. Another reason for having the student try different rod planes is it gives the student a chance to see what rod plane they prefer as part of their individual style. Some students prefer a near horizontal plane (Lefty style), others prefer near vertical and others prefer something in between. I try to help the student find what works best for them or what they feel most comfortable with and then help them optimize that style.

[Walter]

Carrying on with the underpowered curve cast - I find it hard to think of it as a curve cast. I know it meets the definition of a cast because the curve is the result of actions on the part of the caster before the stop but when I think of a curve I think of being able to curve around an object like a tree. With the underpowered curve I can loop around low lying objects such as rock but with the overpowered curve I can actually throw the curve around any object, not just over it.

That brings up another question and that is what would be the point of throwing a curve around an object like a tree? If I was ever able to hook a fish with my line curved around a tree my odds of landing the fish are pretty small.

I often use curves to get really long drifts. I’ve also used curves when sight fishing with streamers because I can then retrieve the streamer so that it passes in front of the fish from an oblique angle rather than appearing to “attack” the fish by approaching it head on and potentially spooking it.

[Graeme H]

And lastly, one can fail two of the casting parts and still pass, none of the teaching parts. It would help them, if they told where the problem was, even if it hurts the ego, it helps the second time around. Not working on the specifics, might just hurt the same way, the second, third, fourth and so on time around, experienced it

I agree 100% with this bit (and the others, but I'm addressing this bit in particular here. )

In my 1st attempt at the MCI, I went to the water even though I had failed on the grass. My reasoning was to find out if there were other tasks I'd fail on the water in a subsequent attempt. The feedback for my water tasks was that there were no issues to deal with in particular, other than to slow things down a bit. (My natural tendency is to make my Spey casts fast to deal with the wind I normally cast in.) None of the tasks were fails and I had three MCIs watching my casting.

This time, I failed the final task using exactly the same cast I used last time. Apparently it wasn't oval enough

This apparent inconsistency between examiners is the aspect of this recent experience that has really knocked me about. How can a candidate who works in extreme geographic isolation ever hope to pass on merit if the examiners are all looking for different things? Even having a mentor didn't help the other candidates, since a mentor can't examine their candidate and the examining MCIs found their casting to be lacking.

At this rate, I may never be able to fulfil the requirements to be an MCI because it's possible that every attempt will expose something that one examiner finds insufficient. The cost for me to even attend these testing events is about USD$5000 (actual outlay and opportunity loss) so that's it for me. I'm done.

The most amusing thing for me was that one of the main tasks the FFi wants an MCI to do is successfully mentor CCI candidates. The guy I was mentoring leading up to this event passed his CCI exam with flying colours. The examiners told me that his work was great (worst mark was a P-) and that I had done an excellent job to get him to such a high level in 8 months. Additionally, three guys at the event were making some fundamental errors leading into their exam that would have seen them fail: I helped all three by fixing those errors and they passed.

Cheers,
Graeme

[Paul Arden]

I’ve caught many fish with curving the fly around trees, Walter. It’s a very valuable cast for me. Hookups no problems. When I use the cast I do have strong leaders and I’m mostly (not always) fishing poppers.

Cheers, Paul

[Lasse Karlsson]

And lastly, one can fail two of the casting parts and still pass, none of the teaching parts. It would help them, if they told where the problem was, even if it hurts the ego, it helps the second time around. Not working on the specifics, might just hurt the same way, the second, third, fourth and so on time around, experienced it

This time, I failed the final task using exactly the same cast I used last time. Apparently it wasn't oval enough

This apparent inconsistency between examiners is the aspect of this recent experience that has really knocked me about.

Cheers,
Graeme

Hi Graeme

Really sorry to hear this! I truly am.

I hoped that the EDP program would have ironed out the biggest inconsistencises in examining.

What where the other fails and what where the feedback you got?

Cheers
Lasse

[Graeme H]

Hi Graeme

Really sorry to hear this! I truly am.

I hoped that the EDP program would have ironed out the biggest inconsistencises in examining.

What where the other fails and what where the feedback you got?

Cheers
Lasse

I'll PM you. I don't want this to get too personal out in public because it doesn't need to be.

Cheers,
Graeme

[Paul Arden]

FWIW I would have passed you three years ago Graeme. Anyone who has contributed as much as you to developing FC knowledge is a Master as far as I’m concerned. I do have some info for you however that I would like to share and go through with you. Let’s have a Zoom session this week now I’m free again.

Cheers, Paul

[Graeme H]

Thanks Paul. I really appreciate it.

Email sent.

Cheers, Graeme

[Mangrove Cuckoo]

I do not believe I am a conspiracy theorist. (Which, of course, is a major characteristic of conspiracy theorists!)

But I do sometimes feel like there is a bit of bias in the FFi. Particularly against us folks down in the south, which seems absurd since there are a whole lot of flyfishers down here.

Last winter, the first southern Fly Show in years (due to COVID) was in Atlanta on the first weekend in February, which is traditional. It had been planned for a long time, but FFi decided to have a big Zoom type online meeting on Friday afternoon. I thought FFi was involved with the Show, so I inquired if FFi folks would get together somewhere? Nope, the FFi contact said they had no idea... but if I wanted to organize something I could. Friday evenings is when everyone relaxes and has a beer, so I passed. But I thought it odd timing and a wasted opportunity.

This coming November, here in South Florida, there will be Show / Science research meeting organized by BTT (Bonefish and Tarpon Trust). Its a big deal that does not take place every year (triennial I think), and it too has been delayed due to COVID. So, you guessed it... once again FFi has cross-scheduled, this time a multi day Zoom type thing that will exactly conflict with BTT.

It is probably just a coincidence, but at best it suggests a lack of concern. I cannot believe those at FFi involved with the planning could have overlooked something like the BTT event: its international. So... ?

You really can't do both things at the same time, and having to make my choice I will allot my time to the BTT. And I'm sure every other Keys oriented fly angler (or any other fly angler interested in bonefish, tarpon and permit) will make the same choice.

Once again, odd timing and a wasted opportunity for the FFi.

All fish, all waters?