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Overpowered Curve

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Boisker
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Overpowered Curve

#11

Post by Boisker » Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:16 am

I found this the hardest cast to pick up, funny seeing as I did it all the time when I first started fishing :D

Paul’s video really helped as it made it immediately apparent I was ‘over-powering’ the over powered curve cast :D
I had far too much power through the whole forward stroke, surprising how easy it is once you get the feel for it. I always struggle when something says more power, I go too far.... a description of how it feels to me when I cast it is... smooth forward cast then slight/squeeze pull back.
Strangely I found the curve off my wrong shoulder far quicker to sort out, probably because I could hit the overpowered element as hard :closedeyes:

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Paul Arden
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Overpowered Curve

#12

Post by Paul Arden » Sun Jun 24, 2018 2:24 pm

The curve happens for two reasons - 1 the fly kicks around and 2 the excess energy in the line rebounds as a returning wave. This means that the loop plane must be horizontal. It’s possible to do this with a near-vertical rod plane, but a hell of a lot easier with a near horizontal rod plane.

The easiest way to learn is to start with a very short line length. Say 2-3m of fly line plus leader. Common error is to overpower the beginning of the stroke which casts an open loop (not what you want). Instead you must overpower the end of the stroke - not so much that you cause a tail - which creates a different curve! By far and the best way I find is to use pull-back ie reverse the torque.

It’s relatively easy to learn this with a short line and then gradually increase the line length. It is a challenging cast to learn - the backhand overpowered curve is for many one of the hardest casts to learn. (Not for Boisker!). It is one of the casts I practise before teaching it! I don’t have anything like the same positioning control as forehanded which is a shame because I use the forehand often. I think this is one cast that is better thrown off the non-dominant hand.

Cheers, Paul
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Boisker
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Overpowered Curve

#13

Post by Boisker » Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:19 pm

It’s weird Paul, i’d Watched your vid so had the expectation I would struggle and didn’t try off the shoulder for ages, but bizarrely I pretty much cast the over powered curve off the wrong shoulder straight away after eventually getting it sorted on the ‘right’ shoulder.... which took an annoyingly long time... as in months to do consistently (you may remember I posted on here and you suggested a slight pull back, which made all the difference it suddenly clicked). I don’t know why, but I find off the shoulder easier to cast with the rod in a just off vertical position compared to on my right shoulder
I still find it ‘easier’ to get it to go at right angles off the wrong shoulder... it feels slightly different to how I cast on the right shoulder... but I can’t do it with as long a line length on the off shoulder.

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Paul Arden
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Overpowered Curve

#14

Post by Paul Arden » Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:52 pm

That's great - thanks Matt I will remember that and try it when teaching. It will be very interesting to see how that applies to others.

Thanks!!
Paul
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Subtropicalspey
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Re: Overpowered Curve

#15

Post by Subtropicalspey » Sun Dec 01, 2019 1:42 pm

I found this video to be very useful and I have spent many hours practicing the near-horizontal overpowered curve cast as part of my preparation to take the Masters Casting Instructor test. The task reads: Demonstrate two different methods of presenting a curved line presentation to the left/right and around the target. Line length shall be 45 feet.
In the frequently asked questions for the test we read: Curved line Presentation- Does the rod need to stay vertical/ horizontal or just start there? Answer: The vertical or horizontal rod plane, as the case may be, should be maintained throughout the stroke.
Furthermore I have been advised by an examiner that pullback is not permitted.
After practicing I believe that the word “overpowered” comes from the method used to produce this cast before the usefulness of the horizontal loop plane was clarified. When I practice this cast using Paul’s suggestions I get good results even when the cast is not overpowered. When I try the traditional method using a horizontal rod plane and overpowering I tick a lot. I don’t tick with Paul’s method.
The only difference I have with Paul’s method is that in order to comply with the test’s requirement for the (near) horizontal rod plane to be maintained throughout the stroke is that I make a horizontal loop plane on both the back cast and the forward cast.

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Lasse Karlsson
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Re: Overpowered Curve

#16

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:25 pm

Did the examiner say why pull back isn't allowed?

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Subtropicalspey
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Re: Overpowered Curve

#17

Post by Subtropicalspey » Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:49 pm

No, but he was emphatic.

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Re: Overpowered Curve

#18

Post by Mangrove Cuckoo » Sun Dec 01, 2019 6:52 pm

Shouldn't this cast be more accurately called the "over-rated" curve cast?

I find it has limited application in real fishing situations, and think it would be more accurate to call it a "hook the leader" cast.

Curved layouts are essential to be successful in some of the situations I fish, but I need to be able to place both the fly and where the curve is in the line. I find the over power horizontal cast is one dimensional.

Both of those criteria (fly and curve) can be placed much more accurately from a vertical rod plane, and not just from an under-powered stroke, which is really the most controllable, but can be useless in certain winds.
"Technique is the proof of your seriousness"

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Lasse Karlsson
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Re: Overpowered Curve

#19

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:22 pm

Subtropicalspey wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:49 pm
No, but he was emphatic.
I'm asking because that was the old test, the new one (2017) asks for a curved line layout, and pull back is allowed. Still horisontal and vertical, left and right.
And it stays in the new revision for 2020, expectations and worsing have just been clarified.

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Lasse
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Paul Arden
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Re: Overpowered Curve

#20

Post by Paul Arden » Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:14 am

It’s funny it’s actually one of those casts that I often use while fishing. My main use of it is when fishing into the banks, as I move along the bank casting around structure to reach the edge - well it’s sometimes the only cast available. But I also use it for downstream presentations with dry fly (assuming they leader isn’t 30ft :p) and I have an important use for it here for casting around babies to reach parents - but then I perform the cast just by canting the rod in the casting stroke (try doing this in a one or two second shot!! Great fun!! But pull-back at Snakehead Shot speeds is less controllable than just using the speed of the shot to control the bend).

With regards pull-back it was thought to be a mend which is why it was out of the MCI test (cart before horse) so I made a video showing pull-back happening pre-RSP/loop formation and sent it to the MCI committee which I was involved with at the time.

It was actually this video (that I shot on my mad cycle tour around half of Australia, hence the pants :p ) https://www.sexyloops.com/movies/pullback.avi where you can clearly see the cast with pullback initiating pre rod tip slowing which makes it part of the casting stroke using anyone’s definition. In otherwords pull-back in part accelerates the fly leg directly.

Incidentally you can also use torque-twist to the same purpose but that’s going to take another video.

One thing I would say Is to learn/teach this cast is start with 5 feet of line and build up to 45’ plus :)

Cheers, Paul
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