Casting stroke to minimize kick?

[Mangrove Cuckoo]

Spent the last few days fishing tarpon. Most of it was blind casting aka "coincidence" fishing. You hope your fly and the tarpon coincidentally get close to each other. So, the longer the fly is in the water, the better your odds are... and so, distance is an advantage.

Flys are large and slightly weighted. The lines are intermediate sink. Leaders are on the short side so the fly is at the same depth as the line on the strip... 3- 4 feet deep.

Try to power the cast to increase distance and that usually results in the end tucking and kills the cast. Modify the stroke to minimize tucking and you get the best bang for your buck.

How do you do it?

[SevenWeight]

Maximize layback?

[Paul Arden]

The problem is the short leader of course. How about tapering off with a longer leader that has a density around that of the flyline?

Cheers, Paul

[Lasse Karlsson]

Drift while falscasting to cushion the kick, and on delivery, make sure to be into overhang, and release early.

Cheers
Lasse

[Phil Blackmar]

Use rod hand for positioning only, don't accelerate at end of stroke. Use the haul to generate line speed, instead of a fast haul, go a little earlier, slower and longer. Works particularly well with softer rods, may still be an issue with a very fast rod...

Phil

[Mangrove Cuckoo]

Thanks guys...

I generally agree with the casting stroke suggestions.

I am less inclined to go the weighted leader route, but that is an interesting idea. Do they list the breaking strength? I only remember them being listed by sink rate.

Playing with the casts... (what else are you going to do for entertainment when casting over and over?)... I found that getting the energy just right, instead of trying to max out, got the best results. But I was unsure just how to do it. Every once in a few casts it just worked...but I could not identify what it was.

I think Lasse hit a very important point when suggesting to be in the running line portion of the line. That was not something I tried, and may be quite difficult with this particular line (long belly).

The fly is retrieved right back to the leader at boat side. Heavy line, sunken, and big fly makes it hard to lift... and tarpon have a thing about eating right next to the boat as the fly looks to be escaping. So working the head back out to full length by false casting is a chore.

But some head still in the guides definitely causes more friction... so more loop speed and less line speed -> quicker turn over?

I'll see if I can carry the entire head outside. Or maybe this a case for those shorter heads?

[Paul Arden]

I am less inclined to go the weighted leader route, but that is an interesting idea. Do they list the breaking strength? I only remember them being listed by sink rate.

I think you might have to make your own. It would certainly be worthwhile talking to Keith. He’s been posting me furled leaders for testing. Since we are only talking intermediate that should be quite easy and I’ve had a few that I would certainly call fast intermediates. The breaking strengths of the last ones he sent me was 28lbs.

Cheers, Paul

[Lasse Karlsson]

So working the head back out to full length by false casting is a chore.

But some head still in the guides definitely causes more friction... so more loop speed and less line speed -> quicker turn over?

I'll see if I can carry the entire head outside. Or maybe this a case for those shorter heads?

Working on getting the line out quick with shipping and shooting line during falsecasting is a great excercise, just ask Paul it shouldn't be a chore!

And yes, more friction, more loop speed, less line speed. And that causes quicker turnover, and possibly a kick..

Shorter heads do have an advantage here (Paul will disagree heavily now) but really, both the longbelly and the short head should be fast to get out if you have space. If you haven't got space, then the shorter belly is the way forward



Not much difference in time between the 30 feet shootinghed and the 65 feet belly

Cheers
Lasse

[Chess]

A possible solution is to try a furled leader, custom designed to handle the physics involved. Without actually doing the type of fishing you are doing, but something similar at times at estuary mouths in heavy tidal flow. Long as possible casting distance with bulky/weighted fly, usually a 2/0 clouser and you want it sink fast as it does a down and across and you strip fast, long pulls to created a jigging effect. Australian salmon are the target.
Here's a leader to try https://www.cutthroatfurledleaders.com/ ... r-sinking/ that one has a fast taper. Check out the Big Bug leader too. It would give you options and if it works or not the experience will help. Often it is better to try multiple things to solve a particular problem, as at least you can find out, 'what doesn't work.' That helps to narrow and zero in on what will.
Good luck!

[Paul Arden]

That’s still a very short option, although if you add 4’ of tippet to that you’re up to 7’ total.

Ideally I think you’d want about a 5’ butt section.

Cheers, Paul