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Tailing loops

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Paul Arden
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Re: Tailing loops

#31

Post by Paul Arden » Sat Jan 22, 2022 4:45 pm

Sorry for the confusion guys :D

I don’t watch the backcast when casting accuracy or taking shots, Gary. I was simply watching the backcast to determine what was going on for the timing/tailing issues as an exercise in itself. Like you, I tell the student/client to look to the front under the same circumstances, although not to the fish in the case of Snakehead, but to where they want to cast the fly. (Many times the fly lands behind the fish and we all know why :D )

The loss of tension occurs after Loop Straight. Up to this point it certainly feels to increase. But throw a tight loop and watch it straighten, after it straightens the tension disappears. It’s possible to hit LSP/the “boing” for accuracy. What I’m suggesting is that for distance, when you hit the boing, it causes loop issues such as extreme dangling ends and possibly tails and other destructive (although interesting) phenomena. It can also present problems for accuracy too, but my experiments on the boat roof last week makes me think now that rod angles can eliminate this (that’s the new bit!!).

Cheers, Paul
It's an exploration; bring a flyrod.

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VGB
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Re: Tailing loops

#32

Post by VGB » Sun Jan 23, 2022 8:18 am

Paul Arden wrote:
Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:03 am
It does of course highlight one of the weaknesses of improving a stroke one step at a time. Fix one problem and another appears. In this case, tighten the back loop, and tendency to tail appears. Another example is to fix in-built Creep resulting in a tight loop and you end up with a wide arc and an open loop. It’s also a lot bloody harder to make subtle changes long lasting and you need to find clever ways to reinforce it. That said, it’s still an approach we need to do regularly…………..
There is no real quick permanent fix to this one either and it’s a long haul challenge. At least if I can demonstrate it we can see if this is the cause. The good news is that it is cured with a small adjustment to timing. The problem is ingraining the new timing so that it is, as you described to me earlier, subconscious.

Cheers, Paul
Provision of appropriate external cues and a means of monitoring the outcome such as watching the back cast, supplemented by a good practice regime is the way ahead. The rest is up to the student.

I think that we have suffered from some very human failings in instruction, teaching the technique that we have ended up with after years of practice instead of guiding the student through the learning process, avoiding the pitfalls and rabbit holes that we fell down. We don’t watch every cast because we no longer need to, having developed robust autonomous skills. However, students haven’t been through that process, don’t have those skills and our teaching should be designed with that in mind.

Regards

Vince
"The deep truth of being human is that there is no objective experience. Our brains are not built to measure the absolute value of anything. All that we perceive and feel is coloured by expectation, comparison, and circumstance."

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Paul Arden
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Re: Tailing loops

#33

Post by Paul Arden » Sun Jan 23, 2022 8:29 am

This is true Vince, maybe falling down pits and holes helped give depth to our stroke. There are many things we teach and then unlearn or modify afterwards. Hard stop/stopless, haul timing through the stroke/at the end and so on.

I do believe that a highly competent casters needs to go through the same process of experimenting that we went through. We just guide them. Which is why we need a series of lessons, or multiple series of lessons and not a one-off session.

Gotta run. Waiting for a lesson to start. Then I have packing chaos for Sungai Tiang.

Cheers, Paul
It's an exploration; bring a flyrod.

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Re: Tailing loops

#34

Post by VGB » Sun Jan 23, 2022 8:33 am

Have a good trip, would love to fish that river before I get too old and infirm.
"The deep truth of being human is that there is no objective experience. Our brains are not built to measure the absolute value of anything. All that we perceive and feel is coloured by expectation, comparison, and circumstance."

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