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The one thing instructors never seem to cover?

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Thommo
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The one thing instructors never seem to cover?

#1

Post by Thommo » Sat Jan 22, 2022 3:42 am

I'm yet to see a fly casting instructing video or even IFFA booklets/DVDs that cover the issue of feeding out line while false-casting?

Maybe I've missed it?

But when teaching newbies to cast, I find they pick up the rod arc, movement, stops, acceleration and tight loop aspects ok. Then as soon as you introduce the issue of lengthening the false cast by letting line shoot/slip on the forward cast, and locking it up again on the back cast, the wheels fall off (I know some people also slip line on the back cast, but keeping it simple for newbies here).

Coordinating the line hand to control line slip, while the rod hand coordinates the arc, acceleration and stops takes a lot more time to learn than what I see in most basic casting instruction, which only seems to focus on everything BUT the line lengthening process.

Thoughts/experiences?

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Paul Arden
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Re: The one thing instructors never seem to cover?

#2

Post by Paul Arden » Sat Jan 22, 2022 4:27 am

Hi Thommo,

Hidden away at the end of the Roll Cast video by this bald guy there is a section on “putting it all together” which covers it https://www.sexyloops.com/flycast/the-roll-cast/
It’s less obvious now that the video pages aren’t sub-foldered, but the intention was that a viewer of the App would go through the videos in sequence, practising one stage at a time, certainly up to and including the Double Haul.

Everything up to and including the Double Haul is beginners stuff and I either finish the first lesson at the point of “putting it all together” (at the end of the Roll Cast video) or after introducing the Double Haul depending on how things are going.

What I find sometimes isn’t covered well is checking the shoot (and playing fish and handling fish). I can’t remember if I put checking the shoot into the original videos (it must be somewhere with check hauling and so on) but I made a separate hairier video on this later!

I agree with you that shooting on the forward cast is easier for beginners (for many reasons). I go with the finger on the trigger for the PUALD, which is where the hard work is done, before moving on to holding with the line hand. And then we go Roll Cast pickup, false casting shooting line on the forward cast, and finally shooting on the delivery. Getting it in place with the PUALD first definitely is the way to go I think. Depending on where the student is going wrong asking them to watch their line hand can help with control timing.

Cheers, Paul
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Thommo
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Re: The one thing instructors never seem to cover?

#3

Post by Thommo » Sun Jan 23, 2022 2:54 am

Yes, at 6:18 in that video, you go through the issue of shooting a little line in the air while false casting. It seems underplayed to me though. Learning to lengthen the line in the air on the false cast deserves a video of its own I reckon, because that is the crux of making your cast longer without putting the line down on the water each time.

When I'm teaching newbies, I describe it as "slide and catch" with the line hand. Let a little slide on the forward cast by opening up the fingers of the line hand, then as the line straightens in front, catch the line and lock it up for the back cast by closing the fingers again.

But as I said, this is where most beginners struggle. Often, they will also let go of the line on the back cast too, so all the power drops out of it.

I seem to recall that this issue is not even covered in the IFFA instructors videos/testing booklet (is that right?).

Morsie
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Re: The one thing instructors never seem to cover?

#4

Post by Morsie » Sun Jan 23, 2022 3:38 am

Task 19 in the CI test touches on it (extending line from 30-50 feet). That depends on the examiner too, some treat it as simply adjustments to arc, stroke, power, pause. I like to dig into extending the line because as you say it is a part of the game.

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VGB
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Re: The one thing instructors never seem to cover?

#5

Post by VGB » Sun Jan 23, 2022 7:48 am

I agree it’s not well covered and the topic has come up when I’ve been teaching. I find it hard to call when to introduce it in a lesson, too early and it can demolish their confidence as the newly discovered cast collapses, too late and it screws up their fishing.

From fishing stillwaters and going for distance, I also developed an awful habit of just letting go of the line on the shoot. On rivers it screwed me up if I want to control turnover because my hand was nowhere near the line. The instructor tasks also left me with a habit of teaching single handed, while my line hand is part of the explanation, pointing or emphasising what I’m talking about and students copy that single hand technique. Line hand control is a big topic that doesn’t get the attention it deserves.

Regards

Vince
"The deep truth of being human is that there is no objective experience. Our brains are not built to measure the absolute value of anything. All that we perceive and feel is coloured by expectation, comparison, and circumstance."

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Thommo
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Re: The one thing instructors never seem to cover?

#6

Post by Thommo » Sun Jan 23, 2022 7:37 pm

Yes, it seems incredible to me. Like teaching someone to drive a car and not telling them about the brake.

I'm self taught from books back in the 70's and I'm pretty sure those books covered what to do with the line hand while false casting.

I always have the line in my line hand while false casting. Often the loose line at my feet will snag on some weeds or a stick, or while wading will have swept downstream, and being able to lift and free that line with the line hand while continuing to false cast is also essential.

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VGB
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Re: The one thing instructors never seem to cover?

#7

Post by VGB » Sun Jan 23, 2022 8:27 pm

What I have seen in practice is that line control and casting overloads beginners, there’s too much going on for them to keep up with. If we are going fishing, then I tend to keep them on a short line to give them a chance of just fishing. The flip side of slipping line for stillwaters is seeing people slipping more and more line to try and cast further until they end up in overhang or too much for them to carry.
"The deep truth of being human is that there is no objective experience. Our brains are not built to measure the absolute value of anything. All that we perceive and feel is coloured by expectation, comparison, and circumstance."

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Thommo
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Re: The one thing instructors never seem to cover?

#8

Post by Thommo » Sun Jan 23, 2022 11:06 pm

VGB wrote:
Sun Jan 23, 2022 8:27 pm
What I have seen in practice is that line control and casting overloads beginners, there’s too much going on for them to keep up with. If we are going fishing, then I tend to keep them on a short line to give them a chance of just fishing. The flip side of slipping line for stillwaters is seeing people slipping more and more line to try and cast further until they end up in overhang or too much for them to carry.
Yes, I agree. I find their biggest issue though is being able to coordinate the line hand to slip line on the forward cast, but not let it slip on the back cast. Or slipping line on the forward cast too early.

I never have beginners strip line directly from the reel during false casting either. I get them to strip some off first & have it laying on the ground.

Which leads me into another issue. Much of my past guiding (27yrs worth) was as a part-time guide for a particular farm stay, and most of the punters were complete newbies who I had for just 1 day and they wanted to catch a trout! So I had to get them to cast far enough to do so. Hence keeping them on a really short line was not an option. And constantly doing laydown & pickup on the water was not an option mostly as it just spooked the trout in this tiny stream. They needed to learn to cast at least 10-15m with an aerialised cast fast.

No pressure :p

I love it when I get someone who can already cast a bit :yeahhh:

Now I have a different problem (as I hardly do trout these days, but more carp, bass & cod). How to get newbies to cast a really heavy fly a decent distance, or with carp how to get them to be crazy accurate so they can land it in a dinner-plate size area.

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VGB
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Re: The one thing instructors never seem to cover?

#9

Post by VGB » Mon Jan 24, 2022 6:21 am

I don’t take beginners on to our small streams. They are far too overgrown and it would end in tears.
"The deep truth of being human is that there is no objective experience. Our brains are not built to measure the absolute value of anything. All that we perceive and feel is coloured by expectation, comparison, and circumstance."

Tangled
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Re: The one thing instructors never seem to cover?

#10

Post by Tangled » Mon Jan 24, 2022 10:26 am

The other thing you never see in an instructional video is the teacher saying "for this cast I'm going to have 30' of line (or whatever) outside the rod tip." I imagine people trying to cast with random amounts of line out and things not quite working out as instructed.

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