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Reading the Line ?

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resdog
Posts: 133
Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2014 2:17 pm
Location: Eastern US (MA)

Reading the Line ?

#1

Post by resdog » Wed Sep 09, 2015 12:04 pm

Could someone give me some help on reading the line ? I am looking at it as a "cause and effect " going backwards ? For example , I have been making adjustments to improve the loop shape , accuracy and just a overall better cast. A simple & small change in foot position made quite a change ( Only took me a year to figure that one out ! ) So on to my question , from the documentation here I have a working knowledge of reading the loop shape and can make changes there , what about identifying issues from reading the line once I lay it down ? Say the line is straight on a cast with about 40 ' out the tip and a 9' leader but the last 2 feet of line or so has a series of S curves in the line , thus down the leader ? Where did the error occur ? At the end of the cast or the stop or perhaps in the backcast ? I am not so concerned about the leader , for practice I made one up and it is not a very good taper or should I be ? . I think I am correct that a hook left or right is from coming out of SLP. I am also working from minimal power and increasing from there , having discovered I was using too great a arc for the distance and thus too much effort ( speed to maintain line tension) . The up side is the distance is increasing and the effort is decreasing , the line is straight and accuracy is pretty darn good. I am also wondering if this could have anything to do with angle of delivery and presentation ?

Thanks

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Paul Arden
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Reading the Line ?

#2

Post by Paul Arden » Wed Sep 09, 2015 12:42 pm

Hi Resdog,

This is a huge and interesting topic.

I'll just pickup on your three questions first and give you my opinion.

1) is usually trajectory. If the forward cast is climbing slightly then this will happen. I use it of course when fishing to present slack. But you want to be able to turn it on and off. Try working on the angle of your backcast - a low backcast will cause it as well as adjusting the angle of your forward delivery.

The leader can also be forced to bounce back which will create a similar configuration. And starting the forward cast too early can create the same. Finally a realky shitty short leader can make it happen!

2) left or right hook is tracking.

3) I think it probably/possibly has to do with a higher angle of the straightened backcast.

I do think you should be looking closely at the leader you're using. If you don't buy a tapered leader then you should make one up. It might not have mattered so much in the past but I think it does for you now!

Cheers, Paul
It's an exploration; bring a flyrod.

Flycasting Definitions

resdog
Posts: 133
Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2014 2:17 pm
Location: Eastern US (MA)

Reading the Line ?

#3

Post by resdog » Wed Sep 09, 2015 1:16 pm

Thanks Paul ,

All the points you make above are highly suspect and probable errors/flaws in my stroke and timing , I shall experiment , the slightly high angle of delivery I know is sometimes present and the leader is a piece of shit , time to upgrade.
Can we talk a bit about the back cast ? I know I want the backcast to copy the forward cast , nice smooth loop and in the same plane as the forward cast , when do I start the forward cast exactly ? Do I wait for a complete straightening ? slightly before to prevent line fall ? I read I think it was Peter Hayes or maybe it was Lefty say a little bit of creep was a good thing ? That " little creep" actually being the transition from drift to forward cast , one fluid motion ? Also , my practice line is a GT 90 , I am finding this to be quite different than the typical short 38' heads on the common brand lines ? It maybe my imagination but I think the roll out time is longer with the equal amount of power/line speed ? I am not so sure about that last one , maybe it is just that with the short head lines the weight concentrated in a compact length generates more speed or something ? I don't really know but I am liking the longer heads better , it seems I have more control over what the line is doing or going to do , less effort to " throttle back a bit " I 'm I making any sense or just talking out my ass ? I am not sure my perception is actually reality ?

resdog
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Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2014 2:17 pm
Location: Eastern US (MA)

Reading the Line ?

#4

Post by resdog » Wed Sep 09, 2015 1:48 pm

Hey , I just thought of this , did I just discover a new way to throw a curve cast ? If I rotate the rod tip behind me on the back cast and over power the forward cast than the end of the line will hook right , I cast left handed ? :)

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Paul Arden
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Reading the Line ?

#5

Post by Paul Arden » Wed Sep 09, 2015 4:50 pm

Just off to bed! Will talk about the backcast tomorrow. The off-plane backcast leading to a curve on the forward is a speciality of Dr Ling in Malaysia - so it has been invented! Haysie decided to call it the "Cunning Ling Curve" :)

Cheers, Paul
It's an exploration; bring a flyrod.

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resdog
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Location: Eastern US (MA)

Reading the Line ?

#6

Post by resdog » Wed Sep 09, 2015 10:11 pm

Well , I guess I'm not going to be famous but the Doc did give it a cool name ! :)

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Paul Arden
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Reading the Line ?

#7

Post by Paul Arden » Thu Sep 10, 2015 4:49 am

Hi Resdog,

when to begin the forward cast is a question that has many different opinions, but first let me throw in a couple of Sexyloops definitions:
Casting Stroke - when the rod applies force to the line in order to form a loop

Drift: To position the rod between casting strokes.


Moving the rod to adjust Casting Arc, Stroke Length or Casting Plane. Drift applies little or no force on the line.

Slide: A form of drift where the rod is moved along the line towards the line hand.
Now of course there are different definitions in flycasting, that actually mean different things, but so we are on the same page let's use the definitions above.

I would argue that you absolutely don't want to start the Casting Stroke prior to the loop fully unrolling. The Casting Stroke according to the definition above is a purposeful movement to accelerate the line to form a loop. If the previous loop is still unrolling and you begin the forward cast, it will result in either a cracked off fly during the stroke or a failure that will appear later in the loop propagation where the line collapses.

What you might want to do is to Drift. It could be argued that a little bit of Forward Drift can help with timing and makes the transition between back and forward casts more fluid. There are certainly styles that have it. And I think it's because you can do it, but you don't have to do it, and if done to excess it creates problems, is the reason that there are differences in opinions as to what is the best technique.

And because of this it's something you need to explore and form your own opinion about. And because I know that you are practising daily, I would suggest you try a number of things, not just pausing compared to drifting forward, but to really have a more rounded picture, try drifting backwards and particularly upwards to contrast one against the other.


With regards the GT90 compared to other lines, I don't know, Mike would have to confirm but it could be density related. A less dense line will take longer to unroll. And I know Mike likes his fishing lines to float high. So that's certainly a possibility.

Right, I'm off fishing for a few days :pirate:

Cheers, Paul
It's an exploration; bring a flyrod.

Flycasting Definitions

resdog
Posts: 133
Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2014 2:17 pm
Location: Eastern US (MA)

Reading the Line ?

#8

Post by resdog » Thu Sep 10, 2015 9:36 am

Lots for me to work with there and it will keep me busy for quite a while , but right now the forecast is RAIN ! Which means no work and also means I am off to the river too ! :yeahhh:

resdog
Posts: 133
Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2014 2:17 pm
Location: Eastern US (MA)

Reading the Line ?

#9

Post by resdog » Thu Sep 10, 2015 11:13 am

oh , in regards to the long head v short head thing , after re evaluating that , I think it is that the longer head is smoother due to the weight distribution and any loss of control of the line with the shorter head is due to my reacting to the change in pull from the line , it pulls and than I react by pushing , resulting in an uneven acceleration , basically I am not working with the rod ....I guess anyway

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James9118
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Reading the Line ?

#10

Post by James9118 » Thu Sep 10, 2015 10:21 pm

resdog wrote:oh , in regards to the long head v short head thing , after re evaluating that , I think it is that the longer head is smoother due to the weight distribution and any loss of control of the line with the shorter head is due to my reacting to the change in pull from the line , it pulls and than I react by pushing , resulting in an uneven acceleration , basically I am not working with the rod ....I guess anyway
Hi, quick question - do you watch your backcast?

James

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