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Gary Borger Triple Shoot?

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Dave Alexander
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Gary Borger Triple Shoot?

#1

Post by Dave Alexander » Sun Sep 20, 2015 3:20 am

Just curious if any one knows exactly what Gary means in this article "Triple Shoot" when he refers to "the slip" I understand shooting the line into the back cast and the forward cast, but wasn't quite sure what he meant by slipping line. It seems that is would add be adding slack into the beginning of the back cast?

http://www.garyborger.com/2015/04/20/ewf-2015-day-2/

Sometimes I will slip line into a roll cast, then to a overhead, which you could easily shoot line into the back cast and then the forward cast.

Cheers,

Dave

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Paul Arden
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Gary Borger Triple Shoot?

#2

Post by Paul Arden » Sun Sep 20, 2015 4:54 am

Hi Dave,

It depends how much line you have on the water to begin with Dave. If as an extreme example you're picking up say 12m of line then you need all the arc for the lift that you can get. On the other hand if you've only got the leader and a small amount of line on the water - which is more normal - slipping Line out the tip during or at the beginning of the lift is very useful indeed.

It means you don't need to make a roll pick up to keep or get more line out, which is particularly useful when streamer fishing because sometimes streamers won't roll (!) or else when setting up the roll if a fish takes you miss him (I like to fish streamers with the rod pointed straight down the line right through the entire retrieve) - different with small wets of course where you can hook these fish by making a roll cast!

One other benefit is that it makes your first backcast lower and more in line with the direction you really want to cast going forward.

It's a standard trick to the three pick up and lay downs game. I've gotten very good at it during Spey casting moves too - not just the lift but also the rest of the Sweep - and this is because I often fish the fly line end right to the rod tip - sometimes inside!

It doesn't introduce slack but you need water to make it work.

Cheers, Paul
It's an exploration; bring a flyrod.

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Paul Arden
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Gary Borger Triple Shoot?

#3

Post by Paul Arden » Sun Sep 20, 2015 4:57 am

Interesting article from Gary by the way. I was particularly interested in the suggested damping effect afforded by the 3-point grip. I haven't heard about that before.

Cheers, Paul
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Bernd Ziesche
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Gary Borger Triple Shoot?

#4

Post by Bernd Ziesche » Sun Sep 20, 2015 7:03 am

Hey guys.
Thanks for the link, Dave. Nice article, good points in it for sure!
I disagree with point 1 though: "Poor loops, poor shoots".

When I have stripped in almost all my line and then want to work it out again, I need mass but don't have (enough) mass (just very short line outside the tip). So in order to make it shoot I use a very wide arc to get a hell lot of speed. Lots of speed in the little line mass means enough momentum to make the line start shooting. Such a short line combined such a wide arc results in what many instructors call none loops. This way I get much faster back into the line length I want before the final shoot (or laydown). I call it "proper momentum = proper shoot". Momentum is both mass and speed. The longer the line gets, the more important the loop shape gets (I agree on that).
Cheers
Bernd
http://www.first-cast.de
The first cast is always the best cast.

Dave Alexander
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Gary Borger Triple Shoot?

#5

Post by Dave Alexander » Mon Sep 21, 2015 6:39 pm

Hi Paul,

Yes, What you said make sense particularly within his application. He was trying to demonstrate how you go from a limited amount of line outside the tip ring to seventy of casting. As you say if you getting at if you have more line out slipping will generate slack and you won't have enough leverage rod power to compensate.

I also thought about the low rod hand location dampening effect. I don't generally use a 3 point grip, but use more of Mel's screw driver grip, but have jam my hand against the reel at time. I notice a difference in the feel or action of the rod, but never thought of it as advantage.

Bernd,

Interesting point on the short open loop. So you see more dynamic relationship between loop shape and shooting ability. Does that mean that loops shape is very critical for shooting with lots of line carry? That question probably reveals that I haven't exactly followed the discussions/advancements in distance casting.

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Bernd Ziesche
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Gary Borger Triple Shoot?

#6

Post by Bernd Ziesche » Mon Sep 21, 2015 9:07 pm

Hi Dave,
a tight loop is what allows me to match direction (to the target). For lengthening the line direction isn't important in the beginning (when starting with a short line). All I first want is highest line speed in order to make the short line run thru the guides. When having medium length I again start tightening loops for further shooting. Otherwise I would hit the ground or water.
Cheers
Bernd
http://www.first-cast.de
The first cast is always the best cast.

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