Tracking ... tracking ... tracking

[James9118]

What is the secret to having the fly layout when competition distance casting with a 5 wt MED?? Mine just fizzles and runs out of gas. Thank you.
Phil

Hi Phil,

There are a number of reasons that can cause the leader to pile during a distance cast with the MED #5 and without seeing your competition cast it would be difficult to pick a specific cause.

That said, I watch a lot of people in competitions (usually when marking them) so can mention what I see as the most common cause of poor turnover in the casts of very good throwers. The one I see most stems from sag in the backcast - this doesn't have to be particularly obvious to have an affect on turnover. The thing with the MED is that it's easy to get carried away with carrying more and more line, often the caster doesn't notice that the sag is starting to have an impact as they're pushing the carry up to their limit.

Bernd Ziesche made some very insightful observations on the trajectory that the line travels during a distance cast - he noted that the leader configuration at the end of the cast follows a very interesting path that can result in a poor turnover, this is known as Bernd's dangly bits or BDB here .

One thing I do is to practice a bigger carry with a #5 MED than I'll use in a competition cast. So for example I'll practice carry only at 90ft, but I'll deliver a competition cast off ~85ft (depending on the weather). That way my competition carry is under much better control than my, flat-out, practice carry.

Cheers, James

[Phil Blackmar]

Thank you James.

I think you nailed me. The problem I’m having is when I’m at max on carry. Plus, my backcast is the limiting side on carry for me, so I’m sure it sags when I hit or near my max.

Back to working on the backcast.

Cheers
Phil

[carlz]

There does seem to be rather a lot of people casting with the wind nowadays Me personally I’m not impressed with anything that is wind assisted. I feel like I’m in a minority here but that’s not going to change. That’s just a case of who has the biggest wind

After taking a break from trying to increase my casting distance, I've started back up. A post a few weeks ago got me going, I started to work on my backcast tracking which had me get to 80 feet consistently with a GT125 6wt line a month ago. Yesterday I hit 97ft with a slight tailwind. 17ft better than a month ago. Of course after getting home from the park I realized I was on the crest of a hill, so my backcast had an extra 8' of drop available.

I guess it's back to a flat field for some practice.

BTW, thanks for the forum. It's a wonderful resource.

[Phil Blackmar]

Hi everybody-

I am announcing my withdrawal from serious competition distance casting. After 4 months of work, and seeing your videos and results in the 2020 PULD, you guys are friggin awesome casters and I am not in your league. However, I am still casting everyday and going to spend more time on accuracy, loop control, and all those crazy trout fishing casts which I never make in the saltwater.

My tracking continues to get better and I was achieving a controlled beautiful straight layout consistently in the 90-100 ft range tonight with a 5 MED on an 8 wt rod. I go between targets and fishing distance casting to continue to improve and learn more about my, and other's technique.

Thank you for all the help. I would really like to see one of your competitions in person some day. You can only see and hear, so much in a video. It must really be something.

BTW John, I spent considerable time experimenting on distance with a javelin or baseball type of move. I was never able to get my loop under control as school buses were lined up to drive thru my loop and wave at me---sarcastic joke LOL

Paul-I will send a video soon of my fishing distance cast and look forward to your opinion when time permits. It's changed a lot from where it was a couple months ago.

Cheers
Phil

[John Waters]

Hi Phil,

You're right Phil, the old multiple school bus lineup trick will ruin technique every time.

Check out the American Casting Association site, and if you can, go to their 2021 National Casting Championships.

John

[Phil Blackmar]

Thank you John.

[James9118]

Hi Phil,

I wouldn't be too hard on yourself, most of the casters entering the PULD challenge have been at it for decades and you're also seeing them 'cherry-pick' the days they're casting on. For example, I'm looking out of my window now and thinking I'd struggle to get in the low 100's today - definitely a day to get the accuracy hoops out rather than the distance tape. It's also worth remembering that most of the entrants have competed at world championship level, in fact the current world champion, Bernt, is the guy leading the comp.

If you can carry a #5 MED at ~85ft with sharp, fast loops then you're going to be competitive in any casting comp.

Cheers, James

[Paul Arden]

I found I went in jumps. When I started distance casting I was throwing 105’. Quite quickly I went to 100-115’. It took over a year to throw 120+ (threw three casts that year that went over). Then I expected low 120s. It takes good conditions to throw 130. 120’ plus for me is the mark.

If the line is fizzling out and landing straight then you might need more line speed - which is mostly a faster haul. If it’s straightening and coming down with slack then maybe aim a little higher on the backcast and lower on forward cast. When fishing I always check the shoot. So excess line speed is required.

If it’s going left or right that’s tracking. And usually (not always) where the backcast is placed.

The dangling end can also be a problem as a James writes. Reducing the backcast arc will help. But then you sacrifice speed in the backcast and potential arc in the forward cast.

Just catching up!

Cheers, Paul

[Phil Blackmar]

Hi Paul-

Just a couple comments in relation to suggestions you have made for me in the past weeks.

Grip-For me, getting the thumb directly behind and under the rod greatly improves my tracking. I also put the pad of my right palm more on top of the of the rod in line with my thumb. This too seems to improve my tracking. With this grip, my loop in 12/6 and the top line is very straight.

On my backcast, I am also keeping the thumb under the rod rather than letting the rod rotate to where my thumb is more on the side. I know this may not be as powerful, but for me it's the opposite. My line speed seems, for some reason, to increase, my loop is 12/6, my direction is much more in line instead of out to the right and the loop is a nice V.

Someone mentioned tension with this type of grip somewhere in this post. That is not a problem for me, probably due to playing golf. But, I also do a cool drill where I keep my thumb and index finger two inches apart during false casting. On the back cast, pressure increases against the index finger until the rod naturally releases. On the forward cast, the opposite happens as the pressure is against the thumb until release. I really helps me with rhythm and timing my haul and certainly keeps any tension out of the stroke.

Cheers
Phil

[Phil Blackmar]

Hi John

I've been thinking about using the javelin or baseball motion for distance casting. In both the javelin and baseball motions, the hand slides off the object to be thrown imparting spin. In so doing, it allows the arm to continue moving past release and enter the deceleration phase. The deceleration or braking phase is critical because it is what prevents injury. The larger muscles in the back of the shoulder serve as the primary mechanism for this.

It is said in baseball that the body will only allow the arm to go as fast as it can slow it back down "safely". Safe is a relative term as pitchers routinely get hurt in baseball.

In casting, the arm has to stop much sooner which limits the effectiveness of any braking which could possibly induce more injuries.

It's a little outside my area of expertise, but just a thought worth considering. Thanks

Phil