Tracking ... tracking ... tracking

[Paul Arden]

Hi Jarmo,

“ What is the trick here?”

You can either take the hand up at a higher angle by lifting the elbow, particularly into the “stop”. Alternatively you can “tuck in” closer to the body with the elbow at the beginning of the stroke. This works because the hand path and therefore Rod tip is steeper. I’m sure I must have mentioned this technique in the headwind video. It’s a good one to play with.

There is a “minimum force” drill somewhere on loops. This is a great exercise.

You don’t need to take your elbow out to triangulate; you can do this as a stance adjustment.

Cheers, Paul

[Lasse Karlsson]

[*]On the backcast, the final angle of the rod is close to horizontal. At least in the "shootout winning cast" video, rotation looks asymmetric: final angle much closer to horizontal on backcast. I have tried this, I know what will happen if I do it: I get a class A windscreen wiper, with backcast trajectory downwards. If the hand is behind shoulder, the combination of the angle of the arm and any wrist use will send the line downwards. What is the trick here?

Its just the 170 technique, Stefan used to throw his back out, so he had to go vertical like that, rather then rotate in the hip. It was a shootout with a 6 weight MED, so carry is likely 85-90 feet there.

Cheers
Lasse

[jarmo]

On the backcast, the final angle of the rod is close to horizontal. At least in the "shootout winning cast" video, rotation looks asymmetric: final angle much closer to horizontal on backcast. I have tried this, I know what will happen if I do it: I get a class A windscreen wiper, with backcast trajectory downwards. If the hand is behind shoulder, the combination of the angle of the arm and any wrist use will send the line downwards. What is the trick here?

Its just the 170 technique, Stefan used to throw his back out, so he had to go vertical like that, rather then rotate in the hip. It was a shootout with a 6 weight MED, so carry is likely 85-90 feet there.

Makes sense.

Based on this thread, I wrote down a long TOTRY list to work through in my search for moments of epiphany. Thanks!

[John Waters]

Hi Jarmo,

External rotation is a challenge and given your comments about a restriction, ignore trying to maximise it. Rather, as you have concluded, focus on your hand position at the end of the backcast. For that 55 feet plus cast without a haul long, as long as you can get your elbow to a position on the backcast whereby the forearm is angled backward and your hand is at least above the shoulder and maybe tad behind, you will achieve your length and loop shape objective. Work on stance, weight transfer, a powerful wrist snap and sequential movement, it will happen for you. The windscreen wiper profile you refer to has a positive for distance casting with long overhang and is a deliberate outcome of that specific distance stroke, but should not be part of an accuracy stroke. If you block the backcast correctly, your loop will be tight and angled above the horizontal. For your 50 feet plus cast, you may want to follow through (extend translation) with your hand, stopping your rod on an angle of between 30 degrees and 40 degrees to the horizontal, approximately. Your line will drop but only to the horizontal and do so without sag. There is no secret, all movement is aimed up and back for the backcast, down and out for the forward cast. Put the emphasis on the "down" not the "out" in front. Just like you would if you were hammering a nail or chopping kindling. I refer to your 45 foot video, your forward hand movement direction is predominantly downward and you do not push out on your delivery but straightening your elbow. Good technique.

It is always easier and better to start by over-applying power and speed on your backcast, then reduce to achieve the required levels of both, rather than starting slow and ramping up. Practice that PUALD cast with increasing numbers of false casts in between, you'll soon achieve your line length and shape objectives.

John

[Paul Arden]

All the above. Also it’s important to realise that the 170 technique works because of a long carry. The huge length of line means that while the line at the rod tip deviates from the casting direction there is still 68’ of fly line angled to target!

As John says this is not accuracy. But it’s also a mistake to open into full blown 170 early. I sometimes see it being done on pickup with something like 40+ feet of flyline out the tip. This needs to be a blocked backcast, preferably set up with pull-back (for me anyway). The next forward cast must also be blocked (and shot). For me the next backcast is a usually a choice whether to block or 170. It’s the final backcast that is stopless/170 and with a carry ~90’ ie 68’ of MED5 positioned at the top of the loop at full counterflex.

Consequently I would argue and teach the transition between blocked open stance backcast and full blown 170 is very important to learn. The blocked casts are very important for control. And if you don’t master this you will always be trying to get the line under control!

Cheers, Paul

[jarmo]

Hello John and Paul!

Work on stance, weight transfer, a powerful wrist snap and sequential movement, it will happen for you.

I sometimes see it being done on pickup with something like 40+ feet of flyline out the tip. This needs to be a blocked backcast, preferably set up with pull-back (for me anyway).

Consequently I would argue and teach the transition between blocked open stance backcast and full blown 170 is very important to learn. The blocked casts are very important for control. And if you don’t master this you will always be trying to get the line under control!

Here is my current plan to achieve the goal (55' pick up and carry, no haul, tight loops, closed stance). The changes to what I am doing now are the following.

1. Stance: longer base of support.
2. Weight transfer timing: before hand movement.
3. Blocked backcast.
4. Drift after forward cast: elbow forward.

To maintain control and evaluate improvements, start at 10', adding increments of 1'. With shoulders square to target, evaluate by keeping eye on "the tunnel."

I feel very optimistic.

I select my rods based on fish fighting feel, typically resulting in rods classified as relatively "slow," such as that Scott Gs. For a well-rounded casting education, a fast, tippy 6wt is on its way.

[John Waters]

Reckon you've got it covered Jarmo.

I won't say good luck, you won't need it.

Good casting,

John

[Paul Arden]

Sounds good! There’s not a huge weight transfer on 55’ closed stance but there is some for sure. Usually for accuracy I am very much on my front foot. But I will certainly “rock” on a longish pickup. Looking forward to seeing the results!

Cheers, Paul

[Phil Blackmar]

Hi all-

Interesting thread going back several pages. The one aspect of tracking which I have not seen, although I'm sure it's addressed somewhere, is the butt section of the rod and/or plane of the rod's role in tracking. My experiences have shown me it is possible for the tip to track straight and have a tracking error if the butt section changes the plane of the rod during the cast at the wrong time.

My flaw, a leftover from my golf swing, consists of my handle moving inward during the stroke on the forward cast. If I stand with my right foot back, which frees my shoulder rotation, the problem is worse compared to right foot forward. Yet the problem still exists with the right foot forward.

The cast will look normal unrolling until getting to the layout when the fly will zig left and then right I have tried restricting my torso rotation and the problem is better but still present. It is also worse if I haul quickly rather than smoothly. Even focusing on starting shoulders square, hand over elbow like throwing darts, failed to be a solution.

The solution: right foot forward plus, in practice, hold the rod parallel to the ground pointing to the target. Visualize a three dimensional plane encompassing the entire rod and its orientation to the target. Prior to rotation, insure the BUTT of the rod is in and stays in the visualized plane. It yields the sensation that the butt of the rod, my hand and elbow are all pushed out away from my side on the follow through. Interestingly. when all lines match up, the cast has quite a bit more energy and goes farther with less effort.

Note, This issue only arises when making long casts, 80 feet and above, or in windy conditions when I add more line speed for control.

Note 2: Somewhere in my flaw is an overhead curve cast to the right to be found. Still playing around with it.

Note 3: Headed out to look for Cobia tomorrow. Hoping for no tracking errors resoling in 6/0 hooks in the back of the head......

[Paul Arden]

Note 2 is a good one Phil! And there are quite a few ways to do this.

Perfect tracking is very difficult. I’m still working on it and I think this will always be the case. Generally what works for me it’s to practise picking targets a very long way apart. As in at the horizon. But even that’s not fool proof.

When I learned to swim I was often guilty of bringing the hand across to the head instead of straight forward. The fix for that was to imagine I had to reach out to the side slightly and this compensated for it. Eventually if felt right.

Just had a bunch of Ladyfish. That was fun. Fortunately I brought some extra backing with me. Otherwise I would most certainly have been spooled!

Cheers, Paul