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Tracking ... tracking ... tracking

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George C
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Re: Tracking ... tracking ... tracking

#361

Post by George C » Fri Apr 23, 2021 11:30 am

Hi Phil
Have you tried a full leader tied from fluorocarbon? It sinks about 3x as fast as mono and obviously you can make it as strong as you want.
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Phil Blackmar
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Re: Tracking ... tracking ... tracking

#362

Post by Phil Blackmar » Fri Apr 23, 2021 1:04 pm

Hi Craig-

I can't find Barstool leaders on line. SA's are too light. I don't have any experience with Skagit combos, might be worth trying. Thanks for the advice.

Hi Paul-

This is all new to me so I don't know what will work best. Mono seems a little too slow. I used a 10 ft section of the SA Sink 6, 6 inches per second (50 GR) doubled so it was 5 ft long followed by a mono leader 60lb 7 ft. I don't know if doubling it made it sink faster, I will have to experiment to see. Cobia seem to like a lure or fly to go down like it's trying to evade them and this combo looked to sink fast enough to give that appearance. A piece of a fast sink line might work the best...

As for how much, I don't know that either. It's a balance between sink and casting. While Cobia will often come to the boat, my goal is to stay off the oil rig and spot them near the surface cruising and make long casts to them. Unless I don't know the best way to join the lines, my experience with casting longer sections of heavy sink tips is they are tough to make quick controlled long casts.

Hi George-

I have not tried heavy fluorocarbon. I was just under the assumption it would be too slow too sink. I'll give it a shot...Thanks

Thank you everyone.
Phil

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Paul Arden
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Re: Tracking ... tracking ... tracking

#363

Post by Paul Arden » Sat Apr 24, 2021 5:29 am

Maybe a full intermediate line or a line with an I intermediate head, Phil? I much prefer casting these to sink tips. However-

What I was thinking was to put a polyleader inside some hollow braid. I would imagine that 100lb hollow spectra would be about right. You can splice loops either end. You might need to whip and glue it every foot or so. With this method you could use fly lines to make sink tips etc. There are also various options on how to make tapers. It’s quite a lot of work but they last a long time. I have some braided leaders that I have been using for several years now. They outlast flylines by a long way.

Cheers, Paul
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Paul Arden
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Re: Tracking ... tracking ... tracking

#364

Post by Paul Arden » Sat Apr 24, 2021 8:39 am

Interesting that you are hitting the rod on the backcast Jarmo. It’s possible that without the haul the line has dropped with gravity before it’s passed the rod tip. Lifting the elbow should actually send the line higher. The closer the elbow is to the body at the start of the stroke, all else being the same, the steeper the tip path angle and therefore the higher the line trajectory.

When I’m back on the boat tomorrow I’ll intentionally practise some pickups hitting the rod to see what adjustments to try.

What is the rod and line you are using?

Cheers, Paul
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jarmo
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Re: Tracking ... tracking ... tracking

#365

Post by jarmo » Sat Apr 24, 2021 11:31 am

Greetings Paul!
Paul Arden wrote:
Sat Apr 24, 2021 8:39 am
Interesting that you are hitting the rod on the backcast Jarmo. It’s possible that without the haul the line has dropped with gravity before it’s passed the rod tip. Lifting the elbow should actually send the line higher. The closer the elbow is to the body at the start of the stroke, all else being the same, the steeper the tip path angle and therefore the higher the line trajectory.
You are correct, the backcast is high and nice, the problem is hitting the rod. And gravity plays a role. Still, this problem appeared immediately after I really started lifting the elbow on the backcast.

Video is so very useful here. As I wrote above, I can see that dropping the elbow on the forward cast clears the path for the line, and the opposite happens on the backcast. Also, on the forward cast, loops were the best - actually, pretty much perfect - before I started lifting the elbow on the backcast - and when I still remembered to transfer my weight. Lifting the elbow on the backcast led to too large a rotation on the forward cast, probably because I was still drifting even though there was no longer a need for it.

How many small changes can you make in such a simple sequence of moves?

I have in no way run out of ideas or energy. Real life (TM) is just interfering with casting for some days. I will post a video here once I meet my target. Or if I hit a wall.
Paul Arden wrote:
Sat Apr 24, 2021 8:39 am
What is the rod and line you are using?
Scott Gs 906, GT125 #6. A "tippy" 6wt is on its way.

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Paul Arden
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Re: Tracking ... tracking ... tracking

#366

Post by Paul Arden » Sat Apr 24, 2021 3:57 pm

Ok doke. Well it’s all stuff to play with. I’m sure you can avoid it by opening up the arc a little on the backcast. With that combination you will certainly need to open up slightly, be smoother, longer and so on.

It’s a different feel of course and many people love it. I suppose it’s more “flowing”. About 25 years ago I used to work for the UK importer of Scott Rods. The 125 is on the upper end of a 6 by the way. With the HT6 for example I use the 125 in 5WT. It definitely feels overweight to me. When I asked Mike about it he told me it was upper end of AFFTA but I haven’t weighed one (FP coming!!).

If I was to put myself into a box I would say I was a fast shot taker. So I tweak my tackle for speed. But I still need the feel for accuracy.

But it’s not necessarily right or wrong. A softer rod allows for a more flowing stroke. A longer tip path helps with accuracy - no question about that in my mind.

I suspect from what you are experiencing that these small adjustments may in fact be closely aligned to this slightly faster stiffer combination. What I will do tomorrow is overline an HT to try to replicate a G and see what happens when I lift the elbow into the backcast.

I’m thinking of putting out some casting training videos next. Anyway back with you ok this tomorrow.

Cheers, Paul
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Phil Blackmar
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Re: Tracking ... tracking ... tracking

#367

Post by Phil Blackmar » Tue Apr 27, 2021 1:24 am

In search of the high effort high speed tiny loop-

I enjoy using a very delayed rotation, especially on the forward stroke. Using this stroke, my loop control is nice until I get to max carry which requires more effort and more speed. Despite considerable practice, this is when my wrist snap and haul happen too early which opens my loop. I have become more and more frustrated with this so I am implementing the high speed needle loop initiative. LOL

For the time being, I am eliminating all wrist hinge upon initiating the forward stroke. Once the stroke begins, I rotate and feel like I push the tip of the rod forward towards the target and a little above the horizon. Tailing loops are a problem if the stroke starts too quickly or I don't get the top line on top of the bottom line. Timed properly, the result is a pointed super narrow loop that stays in tact at high speeds. The haul is obviously much later in the rotation scheme than before. The plan is to get used to this, then add more wrist angle and delayed rotation to see if L can put the two together. Interestingly, this stroke is pretty powerful.

Thanks
Phil

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Paul Arden
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Re: Tracking ... tracking ... tracking

#368

Post by Paul Arden » Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:58 am

Have you come across the “cradle grip” Phil. This is where the rod is held in the curvature of the fingers and turned over by closing the the third finger. It’s good because it delays rotation and utilised the bottom part of the hand to finalise the stop sequence. It’s a grip I use much of the time.

I’m sure I talk about it somewhere in this page:
https://www.sexyloops.com/flycast/compe ... ance-cast/

but I also use it for shots, Speys and so on.

Have a lesson this evening. And then will pay around with hitting the rod on the backcasts.

Cheers, Paul
It's an exploration; bring a flyrod.

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Paul Arden
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Re: Tracking ... tracking ... tracking

#370

Post by Paul Arden » Tue Apr 27, 2021 5:41 pm

No more like this..
69BC009D-EB5B-4356-ABD6-73CF7EB4738E.jpeg
It's an exploration; bring a flyrod.

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