Tracking ... tracking ... tracking

[Phil Blackmar]

In golf, on some shots you will feel like the club head stays on the ball for a long time past impact. When you make a nice longer cast, do you feel the rod tip stays with the line for a long time through and maybe post release? Or do you feel the line separate from the road quickly like when doing a pullback? I really like this grip. Thank you
Phil

[Phil Blackmar]

This grip is amazing. You have rocked my casting world. Hiding behind a grove of trees from the wind gusting over 40mph. I think I’m carrying around 90 ft on a 7 wt with great loops. If the wind quits blowing I will check it out with a 5MED and send a vid.

you

[Paul Arden]

That’s an interesting question Phil. If I was to liken the point of impact to the point when you “hit” the cast, then yes it does feel longer. But that could just be that time slows down . On a good cast it feels like you’ve really grabbed hold of it and you sling it out there. There is so much more time than most people think. And the more line you carry the more time you have. So for me it feels very deliberate.

And then the final part of the stroke is like clicking your fingers.

I know it’s different for a lot of people. When teaching I tend to run through a few ideas that I think will work and when something clicks I always ask what did it feel like. This then gives them something they can readily call up for themselves, as well as gives me something I can try on another unsuspecting subject! These feelings are not all too dissimilar but they are different enough to make them your own.

It’s almost like you feel for the weight of the line, draw it towards you, past you, and then you sling it out there. I would imagine that’s quite different to golf because there you are making contact with the ball half way through the stroke. Whereas in flycasting we have hold of it from the beginning, we get it moving and then we hit it.

I often teach to lay the line down between strokes. Particularly when working on backcast to forward cast transition. Then you can really start slowly, get it moving gradually and apply the power late through a rotation. That’s a very important drill for me. And is something I would like to video for the “soft rod” discussion. It’s a good one for learning the launch too. Delay delay delay delay hit.

Personally I find that finger grip more effective and faster than using the wrist. And I can do it with 10WTs.

Cheers, Paul

[Paul Arden]

This grip is amazing. You have rocked my casting world. Hiding behind a grove of trees from the wind gusting over 40mph. I think I’m carrying around 90 ft on a 7 wt with great loops. If the wind quits blowing I will check it out with a 5MED and send a vid.

you

Cross-posted! That’s great!!!

[Phil Blackmar]

I would imagine that’s quite different to golf because there you are making contact with the ball half way through the stroke. Whereas in flycasting we have hold of it from the beginning, we get it moving and then we hit it.

Golf is actually very similar for those capable of hitting the ball a fairly long ways. The feeling of the weight of the line is replaced by the stretch of body parts pulling against each other. In other words, as the hips rotate the shoulders resist creating a stretching of the muscles in the back. This stretch is felt all the way through the shoulders, wrists, hands and shaft of the club. The following pic was when I was 16 and still flexible....

[jarmo]

Paul,

a quick question, if I may.

Your pickup method of hitting it at the end is pretty much amazing. I can now even ignore slack near rod tip, it gets easily sorted out in the process. But why doesn’t it tail? Is it because in the method you are “hitting it after the perpendicular?” (IIRC, a term you use in one of your distance casting videos.)

[Paul Arden]

That’s interesting Phil. It always surprises me how many sports fly casting compares well to. I even see it in pool playing.

That’s a good question Jarmo. I think it’s that and also because it’s predominantly rotation. That combination is not going to tail. It’s good to know because that’s the timing we can also use to generate our highest line speeds. I do the same thing on a delivery shot but with torque twist. Or same timing but Stopless.

I can’t remember where I learned that method for tightening pickup back loops. It might have been Philip Maher or Viking Lars at a Hungarian casting certification years ago. It’s very effective!

Cheers, Paul

[jarmo]

That’s a good question Jarmo. I think it’s that and also because it’s predominantly rotation. That combination is not going to tail. It’s good to know because that’s the timing we can also use to generate our highest line speeds. I do the same thing on a delivery shot but with torque twist. Or same timing but Stopless.

I can’t remember where I learned that method for tightening pickup back loops. It might have been Philip Maher or Viking Lars at a Hungarian casting certification years ago. It’s very effective!

I am trying to wrap my head around this method, because there has to be an application in false casting. I will give “mostly rotation after perpendicular” a try and see what happens.

It is fun to keep learning new stuff.

[Paul Arden]

Oh absolutely. That’s when to turn it up. That’s when to haul, that’s when to hit it. If you are not doing that you will get instant results. Make sure you’ve gathered the line first, feel for the weight of the line before you hit it. One other tip maybe is to feel for the weight of the line with the line hand. Those really are my principles behind shot taking.

You’ll undoubtedly see a very significant increase in line speed. Consequently you’ll need to alter your trajectories so that at loop straight the fly is just above the water. Otherwise it will kick.

Oh and go Stopless on the delivery! Otherwise you might lose a rod tip. Just point straight at the target.

Cheers, Paul

[jarmo]

An update on my progress on closed-stance - perfect tracking - no haul casting over 50'. Here is a recent video clip. The usual reservations: pickup is not the best, and trajectory is a bit tilted - fortunately, because in this case it allows us to see the forward cast. And I still creep with my body; old habits simply do not die.



This is very effortless casting, where I try to pull the rod in both directions before the final rotation. As we can see, this "pulling" is to a large degree imaginary, because the rod starts to rotate from the get go. Still, focusing on the idea of pulling helps, since it delays the rotation to some degree, and makes the beginning of the stroke very lightweight.

Loops are still not what I want, they are too wide, and not of the shape I would like them to be. With an open stance, I can produce much tighter, pointy loops. I actually had better loops at some point in between, using the slow initial rotation discussed by Macauley Lord in this video:



A very slow initial rotation followed by a "power snap" does give tight loops (and does not tail). It is, however, a lot harder on the hand.

I will give one more try to tightening the loops by changing the power pattern: slower start, faster and shorter finish. But I think after that I will revert to a more open style for the MCI basic tasks. In any case, even for the MCI, this has been most useful, because I can use the stroke above as the basis for 50' accuracy, both on- and off-shoulder, and 75' off-shoulder distance cast.

BTW, the "line hitting the rod" problem on the backcast disappeared when I stopped lifting my elbow at the end of the backcast stroke.