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Tracking ... tracking ... tracking

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Paul Arden
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Re: Tracking ... tracking ... tracking

#251

Post by Paul Arden » Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:09 pm

Well it might be a haul timing issue Phil, however I do find it better to think in terms of speed with the left hand and direction with the right. If I am applying power with my right hand then I haul very late (and fast). I often teach that when the hauling is truly dialled in then the stroke is based around the haul and not the haul based around the stroke. A fast stroke and a slow haul is a recipe for disaster!

So I agree with you :)

Cheers, Paul
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Re: Tracking ... tracking ... tracking

#252

Post by Phil Blackmar » Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:47 pm

Paul Arden wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:09 pm
Well it might be a haul timing issue Phil, however I do find it better to think in terms of
speed with the left hand and direction with the right.
If I am applying power with my right hand then I haul very late (and fast). I often teach that when the hauling is truly dialled in then the stroke is based around the haul and not the haul based around the stroke. A fast stroke and a slow haul is a recipe for disaster!

So I agree with you :)

Cheers, Paul
That's said much better than I worded it. Thanks

How late can you go on the haul if you power the right?

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Re: Tracking ... tracking ... tracking

#253

Post by Paul Arden » Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:33 am

Hi Phil,

Well let me tell you how I do it, in my mind :) And the reason I say this is because some of the slomo analysis of my stroke has surprised me!

So on a distance cast I’m “leading with the butt”/ “dragging” the rod/ translating the rod with little rotation at the beginning and for much of the stroke. On the backcast the rod butt is tucked under the forearm for as long as possible until it naturally flips open. On the forward cast I imagine I am reaching out and hooking the rod butt over and around a tree miles off in the distance at about 15 degrees above the horizontal.

So that’s the distance stroke. The haul (the dramatic part/rapid acceleration phase) begins when I see the rod butt passing the perpendicular. Both back and forward. And then it’s explosive. BANG!!

Now there are variations to this. I have different ways of applying the force to the rod (typically pullback on backcast, some thrust on forward). I also can haul a fraction later. And often do.

It’s also possible to haul too late, or indeed not at all, but the biggest fault in advanced distance casting IMO is “hitting it too early”. That’s my biggest fault too.

I don’t know if it’s truly possible to have separate explosive timings of rod rotation and haul. It’s been mentioned a few times in the physics thread and it’s something I will attempt to play with on this current moonless casting session with the lumiline - assuming it stops raining at night.

But that’s basically how I do it. Pass the perpendicular and hit the barstool. I go: look at back target, hit it, check loop, look at front target, hit it, check loop and so on. Easy adjustments are to change the “hit” timing. It’s difficult at first because we have some many things to think about but the more we do it the less we have to think about. I’m sure you’re finding this. The overriding element to the stroke is that it absolutely must be straight. If that’s not in place then nothing is going to work well :) I’m guessing you’re throwing pretty straight now – you need to be regularly checking this. As In 2-3 times every casting session (check your targets align, drop the line between back and forward casts, check your hand path and body alignment).

It’s possible to play with timing in slow motion. Lay the line on the ground between strokes, do everything at half speed up until the hit, then be explosive. You can play with timing this way.

Cheers!
Paul
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Re: Tracking ... tracking ... tracking

#254

Post by Paul Arden » Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:37 am

PS you don’t have to be trying to throw 120’ but you should be attempting to “sprint” with the haul.

Oh and you definitely don’t want to be overlining your rod because it just won’t feel right. You could even try dropping a line weight for this exercise.
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Re: Tracking ... tracking ... tracking

#255

Post by Phil Blackmar » Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:38 pm

Hi Paul-

This is great. Your descriptions remind me so much of golf. For instance, I had a putting feeling that there were ball bearings on the bottom of my putter so it flowed effortlessly thru the ball. Another one was I was putting on an air hockey table and my putter was floating on the air coming out of the table resulting in the same fluid, no tension, stroke. You mentioned "over and around a tree", I used to say turn the corner. Amazing similarities.

My lines are much better but still not perfect. I've identified a tracking issue on my back cast that I'm working on which has been causing problems as I near the end of my current capabilities.

I'm also trying to solve a tracking issue on my forward cast. From the end of the back cast to perpendicular is much better, but I end up with the rod pointing a little to the right on the remaining stroke. This is causing the layout to be little funky. If I keep my elbow out and up a little on the way thru, it is better. It's a remnant of a golf swing where the elbow works under and the hands turn to the left, "around the corner" but the club keeps going out for a short while towards the target.....

Figuring things out is a lot of the fun of casting....reminds me of golf, coming home with a new thought or feel and getting up the next day anxious to see if it still works...LOL

I called them epiphanies, some last a day, some a week and some forever....

Thanks Paul

Phil

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Re: Tracking ... tracking ... tracking

#256

Post by Paul Arden » Fri Jan 15, 2021 10:46 am

:) :) I get epiphanies too. The amazing thing is I get exactly the same epiphanies years later. I really should write them down because it’s annoying rediscovering what you have already learned but forgotten! I’ve even posted epiphanies here on the Board only to be told I’ve already written about it in the past.

Rod going right for RH casting on the forward cast is very unusual. Normally it goes left. I draw a vertical line sometimes from about 45 degrees up in front and try to slice downwards with the rod tip.

I can’t remember if I’ve said this (but I’m sure that I must have!); one of my favourite casting exercises is carry. Maximum carry with shaping loops. I do this from an elevated position which allows me to gather mistakes. This enables me to play with different strokes and yet still keep the line aerielised. I throw from the boat roof, but have thrown from the truck roof, over cliffs, off mountain peaks, I even built a casting platform next to my log cabin in Hungary to play these games.

Long carry seems to involve most of the techniques and then all you need to add for distance is the launch.

Adding power and length to straight tracking is very difficult. Occasionally the wind helps us. Sometimes overhang helps. When I’m not throwing straight I cast short to targets and increase again from there.

Cheers, Paul
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Re: Tracking ... tracking ... tracking

#257

Post by Phil Blackmar » Wed Jan 27, 2021 7:48 pm

Paul and Lasse-

Do you ever add a few feet of sinking line to the tip of a floating line? If so, do you use a temporary connection where you can interchange the piece of sinking line on the water? If yes, how do you make the connection? (Lasse, I watched saw your articles on permanent connections, this is would be interchangeable).

Cheers and thanks
Phil

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Re: Tracking ... tracking ... tracking

#258

Post by Paul Arden » Thu Jan 28, 2021 8:26 am

Hi Phil, I have. In fact a few companies make “poly leaders” which can basically turn any floater into a sink tip line. That would work simply with a loop to loop connection. You might feel that you need to cut back the front taper slightly. That depends on the line etc.

Welded loops is one method of loop to loop. Another - the one that I do - is to strip the line to the core, fold over, whip and glue a few times. I find this more durable than welded loops. This works very well with braid cores. Mono cores I would have to try.

Cheers, Paul
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Re: Tracking ... tracking ... tracking

#259

Post by Mangrove Cuckoo » Thu Jan 28, 2021 1:18 pm

I just read that the company who's name cannot be mentioned, and who invented the poly leader, was recently merged into Mayfly group. Which also owns Able and Ross reels.

I expect their flylines will be mentioned by name much more commonly over here in the US.
"Technique is the proof of your seriousness"

Wallace Stevens

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Re: Tracking ... tracking ... tracking

#260

Post by Phil Blackmar » Thu Jan 28, 2021 1:31 pm

Thank you gentlemen......

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