Unified Theory of casting :-)

[Merlin]

Thanks a lot John.

I shall post comments in the "reel and rod balance" thread.

Merlin

[Geenomad]

"Left brain prefers pieces, right brain prefers a whole, one assembled from the pieces."

I actually teach the other way around. Right hander's want the pieces, left hander's want the whole. Been doing it that way since 2004 :-) Left handed people tend to grasp the whole concept and are annoyed by pieces. :-)
They're going to be pretty screwed if they are left handed left brainers :-)
C

Ah but you see, each hemisphere controls the opposing side of the body. I am a right brained left hander.
No problems there.

Cheers
Mark

[Berlin]

"There is nothing to analyse bar maybe trajectory in a projectile, once you've let it go."

Disagree with that Carl, in fact there are a number of flight characteristics and landing characteristics in javelin and other throwing events that occur once it is let go.

I understand and agree with your statement that you can have great effect on a loop once its on its way with the addition of tension in many casts but the question I am struggling with is how do you add tension to a tournament cast once it is on its way that adds to distance or accuracy?

John

Apologies John, That was maybe an over simplification (because I'm trying to keep it that way). The difference between a projectile and a fly line is that we are still attached to it. that was my main point. In my mind as I'm descibing it I've using a rod and standard fly line model.

Lets look at it from the Competition point of view.

Most competition casters have one outfit for their ccasting comps. I witnessed this being a mistake many times. Sure, use the same rod but also have quite a few reels set up to match the conditions. lIKe many sports, we have to adapt to the current conditions. A rally team changes suspension settings and tyres for every stage. Motorcycle racers change the same. Skiers change their wax, ski length and binding position.

We should do the same for out casting outfits.

The shooting head is a system. It is balanced and refined for its specific purpose. A skagit line is short and so has a short flight time. It turns over quickly. But if we want it to fly further we either add overhang (instand fix but bad) or reduct the resistance of the running line bu using a thinner or slicker one. Or we change to a Skandi head, which is longer, so takes longer to unroll. We tune the stsytem for the required result.

With T38, we have a standard head length so we have to tune the running line... and what we do with it. Now you know that casting into a wind with a T38 head is problematic. A headwind is reducing the tension on the running line by trying to blow it back towards the caster. With a tail wind the tension is increased on the running line so the wave in the front of the loop travels faster and hence further. So if we rock up to a competition and there are variable conditions, a gusty, direction changing wind, the guy that gets the kind winds wins. The Lucky gust. But it needent be that way.
Watching the CLA Spey guys in action and analysing how many times a head collapsed before it got to the end of its flight, robbing distance, it occurred to me that they needed various set ups with various running lines from very thin for a tail wind to very thick for a head wind. Same goes for T38.

Now you see most casters in the T38 lift their rids after the loop is on the way. they can either lift early, constantly during the flight or save that boost of tension for right at the very end to guarantee turnover. if they have a head wind, they can even point the rod away from the cast so the line has to make a Z shape to get through the rod increasing resistance. Or they could choose an outfit with a different thickness or slickness running line.

I used to set up up to 5 outfits with different head lengths and running lines and wait till the last second before going on the platform (open comp) to choose the one to match the conditions. I had equal practice time with all of them so i knew in the exact conditions which rod to choose to maximise my chances. The last competition I cast in I came second after three longest casts because the guy who won had a lucky gust. I said in final practice I should lop off 6 ft of the back of the head to tune it for the conditions. I didn't and lost 1000 Quid on the last cast of the comp by a foot. I knew I could have eaked out another half a yard or more with the shorter head. Hey ho. :-) But you can't do this with T38 so we change the running line, and if that's not allowed because it specifically specs one line, we alter the resistance by what we do with the rod.

By point being there's a lot we can do to even a T38 head after we've let go of the hauling line that can win or lose a comp. :-)

[Berlin]

To try and demonstrate all of this I headed over to Youtube to find a caster to analyse.

Instead I found this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMa6rLpnIeM

The 2016 world casting final. There' are some very serious casters in this Vid.

Not to get specific.
1) How many are hurrying?
2) How many are concentrating of maximising tension?
3) How many look like they're enjoying themselves? :-)
4) how many of those casts look like they were fully in control and had no extra wriggles and waves in the line?
5) how many know that they are going to hook one up?

My answers would be
1) All of them
2) None of them
3) Not many of them
4) None of them.
5) None of them.
:-)

So the one time ever that you need to have the perfect cast, no one is looking to make the perfect cast. There's a whole lot of power going on. We know that we can reduce power if we look at tension. We know that if we maximise tension. If we maximise tension and then bring back in the power we get *all of it*.

I never looked at a casting comp in terms of getting as many casts in as possible in the hope of hooking one up. I used to look at it as being able to leisurely get 3 casts in. Three. That's all. First one to find out where the Hook up point is in current conditions. Second to try and hit it and third for confirmation.

These guys have spend tens of thousands of hours practicing. How many look like they've just cast the best loop of their lives? How many looked like they knew they could pull that perfect cast out of the bag? How many looked like they analysed the previous cast and made nuanced adjustments? How many looked like the folks at the Olympics who are using visualisation before a high jump. composure before a shot put, concentration before a pole vault?

Candidly,and without insult, Its a hurried mess.

Three casts! Three composed, visualised, analysed, practiced, nuanced, tension maximising casts. Let go of the third one, drop the mike and walk off the platform. :-)

At that level of competition it should't look anything other than perfected grace. Like any other sport except maybe Snowboarding, which is falling with style anyway :-)

Ok, so nerves come into play. But that shouldn't matter because with tens of thousands of hours practice, you should have it nailed before you get there. You should only need one cast to get used to the conditions and two more to get lucky with the conditions.

Most of the coaching needed for those in the vid. is mental and not physical. Calm down, be composed and cast three perfect casts. Ignore the nerves. *Know* you can hook one up. Know you can maximise tension, know you can improve on the previous cast. Unless you've got a seriously gusty and unlucky wind, you'll be the only one out there. Huge advantage.

No insult intended by any of this. Its purely a technical, outsiders view of the performance. I'd still say well done to all of them.
C

[Berlin]

In contrast. Me, complete with fag in my mouth, not giving a shit, in a casting shootout in Denmark 2004.

http://corporateflyfishing.com/Images/C ... carl_1.mpg

More importantly, analysing the wave and loop in real time, watching every part of it, with composure so I can wait for the perfect back cast to give me the perfect front cast. No flailing, reducing all waves until there's only one, then letting it go.

Now I know its a different set up and outfit and this is shooting heads rather than full fly line but that's secondary (thiss was an 8 weight fishing shooting head set up with intermediate head) I cast the same with a full fly line, just with a longer stroke. I'm still this composed, just applying tension in every way possible to a stable loop because stable loops fly further.

I should say that I've changed my stroke and added even more tension methods etc since this video was taken but my in-cast analysis is still the same.

And if I remember correctly we all had spectacular hangovers that day too! :-)

C

[Berlin]

The point I'm making in the above is that I'm concentrating on different aspects of the cast. Note my final delivery in the video *isn't fast* this is very important. Its not about line speed, Its not about power.

I'm looking at purely in terms of tension, wave and the perfectly stable loop. Its still went 40 odd meters.

I used to do a little test with clients. I used to get them to cast as far as possible. Really give it everything. Then I'd ask them to try and cast "Not as far". Inevitably, as they tried less, the line would go further. In all casting its the human on the end of the rod that is the problem, the less they screw up the cast, the better it goes. If we try, we try too hard. we grip too hard, we go for line speed over tension, we go for power over smoothness.

I took the approach that we should be concentrating on stability, a single wave and tension. as much (controlled) tension as possible. Those give line speed, those give distance, and they don't allow you to put in all the other crap that works against that. As we increase power and speed we also increase tracking faults, twang and all other kinds of stuff we don't want. if I'm using a carving knife do I want to use it with a lot of power? Or a lot of finesse? I'm using a tool. a tool, that produces a wave. A tool that pulls a line tight. Its also adds line speed and momentum to the fly line but by concentrating on the wave side of things I get the results I want without the negative aspects.

We can choose how to cast, and I wouldn't force anyone to cast in a way they don't want to. but for me, breaking with traditional dogma means I can achieve the same results with a different method without the negatives. I could teach you to paint a wall by wildy flailing your arm around until it was done. Is it the most efficient way of doing it?

I haven't touched a single handed rod since the summer where I used it for about half an hour to catch some dinner at the lodge. Before that it as two years ago. Before that,I can't remember. But I know I could walk outside now at minus 14 and using just the tension and wave aspect I could bang out a 5 weight 30 plus meter cast in three goes. Probably one. No practice required. Its a physics thing :-)

Off to see a man about a fish... :-)

[John Waters]

Thanks for posting 84 through 87 Carl, That is what I love about Sexyloops, we can all put up an opinion, an experience or a question and have others engage with their opinions. Unfortunately I cannot say the same about other forums and participants.
I read your comments about post release tension actions and their impact on distance, as well as your gear set up suggestions for same outcomes. My training and coaching focus is on body rotation speed, rod tip speed and loop speed. I understand your wish to attain tension and smoothness and both are contributing factors but in my opinion speed is king. Of course the line needs to be taut on the rod tip (after you have eliminated stretch as early in either stroke as possible as stated in one of my earlier posts) but then the faster my loop is travelling the further it goes. We can agree to disagree on the drivers to distance and that is what I love about this discussion.

For decades, most ICSF casters have been using different diameter monofilament depending on conditions but it is nowhere near as common now due to changes in gear. I also think that whilst it sounded like a good idea it had little if any impact on the distances obtained in head, side or tail wind conditions. In the 70s and 80s I used three different backing line diameters, 0.20mm diameter. 0.25mm diameter and 0.30mm diameter but since then use 0.25mm in all conditions. As I started adding more speed through body movement I found the thick mono restrictive in a head wind as the tension worked against the cast rather than for it.

I don't see the frequency of casters lifting their rod tip after the release that you see. Many use a slight lift/push into the rod bend but that is pre-release technique issue and happens in all wind conditions. Increasing the angle the backing is travelling through the rod tip by post-release rod lift does increase tension on the loop, but in my opinion detracts for distance achieve. Casters push through and over with the rod tip on the line of their release trajectory in all conditions.

I found your comments about the competitors in the 2016 world championships interesting. I was not there so I cannot comment about any aspect of their demeanour, enjoyment, fulfilment or pleasure pre, during or after the competition. I can only comment on the championships I have attended since 1973. Bloody hell, I'm an old barstool aren't I?

I hold that technique development through body, rod tip and line speed is paramount and strength and flexibility enhance each. However, all the muscle in the world will not make up deficiencies in speed generation. It all starts with the body rotation. Thanks for posting your video, enjoyed watching your technique and enjoyed reading your comments about what you could achieve with little or no practice.

I see from your video that you use your arm as the driver to your cast and if I may be so bold, you look like a powerful bloke. Like your comments about competition strategy and the fact that mental preparation is important. I envy casters who can compete against their peers weekly, fortnightly or monthly during each casting season. The most difficult thing about casting sport is to understand that you are only competing against yourself. It does not matter who has cast what score before you, or who is yet to compete. They are uncontrollable factors as far as you are concerned ,and cannot be allowed to enter your completion mindset. Steve Rajeff, Chris Korich from the USA, Wlodek Targosz from Poland, Jens Nagel and Heinz Maire Hensge, from Germany and Dmitri Borovkov from Estonia, to name a just a few, who have excellent command of their competition emotions, but they train for that outcome. You may well be the same. I also note from your video your rod angle and and tip height at, and after release. Can you recall the conditions?

Come to the World Championships in Poland this year, would love to have a cast with you. You can't miss me, I'm the old bloke who will be frantically looking for a rod, line or reel because I forgot where I put it, or even packed it.

John

[Berlin]

Great post John,

Sadly, I'll not be able to attend the worlds. I'm 47 now and I work in construction and guiding, I'm an ex motorcycle racer, ex mountain bike racer, ex snowboarder and a whole lot of other stuff that has taken its toll on this old body. It would take me two years to train my thumb up to the levels that a T38 rod wouldn't snap a tendon during a final delivery . I used to use a 9 ft 6 T38 rod and in my prime I could feel the twinge of pain after four or five casts. and sadly I don't have an hour and a half a day to practice any more. I also don't believe in climbing the same mountain twice. There's lots of other mountains out there and only one life to climb as many as possible. :-)

I'd be more than happy to help others climb their own mountain though and if there was anyone keen enough in the area I'd gladly send them as my proxy.

C

[John Waters]

No worries Carl, best wishes and tight lines to you.

John

[John Waters]

Thanks Daniel, appreciated.

John