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Casting extremely soft rods - what changes?

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Lou Bruno
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Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 12:16 pm

Casting extremely soft rods - what changes?

#11

Post by Lou Bruno » Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:31 pm

Lasse

Not surprised I'm doing something wrong. I work on hauling... thanks.
Lou

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Lasse Karlsson
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Casting extremely soft rods - what changes?

#12

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:26 pm

Hi Lou

Cool, learning and getting better is the absolute best :yeahhh:

beating Paul comes second, but that's what gonna happen when he steps on his beard in Cumbria :pirate:

I'm happy for you!
Cheers
Lasse
Your friendly neighbourhood flyslinger

http://www.karlssonflyfishing.com

***Bring Mark back!!!!!! ***

Lou Bruno
Posts: 295
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 12:16 pm

Casting extremely soft rods - what changes?

#13

Post by Lou Bruno » Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:39 pm

Lasse

Thanks, I changed my casting and hauling as you suggested....big improvements. Thanks
Lou

jarmo
Posts: 146
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2017 12:48 pm

Re: Casting extremely soft rods - what changes?

#14

Post by jarmo » Fri Oct 18, 2019 4:09 pm

I am currently training with a Scott G 6wt, GT125. A distance competition caster once tried this combo and said something along the lines of “this completely fails when applying power.” So while maybe not extremely soft - and therefore this is perhaps OT - the rod qualifies as soft enough for me.

I have decided to first try to master (pun intended) all MCI tasks with this and then switch to a faster 7wt. This hopefully gives me good form and provides some margin for exam pressure.

Hauling late and fast is a good tip indeed. I can not quite achieve it to the degree Lasse does - start at 12 - but I start when the final rotation begins after a drag. This seems to be good enough for MCI performance targets.

But what I find challenging is increasing distance without haul, keeping loops tight, especially in the backcast. This happens already at the 50-55’ distance, from feet to fly. At least now, after about 7 hours of exploring and training, I think I need a very long drag to keep loops tight. For me, any larger rotation opens the loops. So, a very small rotation at the end of an extremely long drag.

In the forward cast this is pretty easy. But the backcast is a different story. I have really had to test various grips and the use of different muscles to maintain tension and tracking while pulling comfortably. It has been very easy to lose consistency in one out of these three: tracking, tension and rotation delayed until the very end. But I am making good progress. And I am in no hurry with this test. Plenty of fun already!

(BTW, it has always been relatively slow for me. I once owned a Sage XP, it was too fast and had to go.)

Thomas
Posts: 220
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2013 3:24 am

Re: Casting extremely soft rods - what changes?

#15

Post by Thomas » Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:20 pm

Hi Jarmo,

I also train with a Scott G. But I use the 5 weight with various lines - I sometimes use a 7 :). Anyway - using such soft rods are great tools for training. You really have to be smooth to get good results and tracking has to be spot on. Otherwise the rod just wobbles in an uncontrolled fashion. I love the feeling of being really in tune with such a rod. It is, in my opinion, much easier to cast a fast rod (and less rewarding).

jarmo
Posts: 146
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2017 12:48 pm

Re: Casting extremely soft rods - what changes?

#16

Post by jarmo » Sat Oct 19, 2019 5:21 am

Thomas wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:20 pm
I also train with a Scott G. But I use the 5 weight with various lines - I sometimes use a 7 :).
My absolute favorite is a 5wt pre-boron Winston from around 2000 and a DT line. I guess it is a good sign, in terms of not having illusions of grandeur, that I have not even considered using this setup for MCI training. I have sometimes used it with a 7wt sinking line when fishing. With that much weight, yes, the challenge is at a different level.
Thomas wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:20 pm
I love the feeling of being really in tune with such a rod.
It is a feeling thing indeed. I have found it a bit difficult to explain, so I hope the following makes sense. If, in a casting stroke, I feel at some point that the rod has become very stiff, I do not like that feeling. I understand that then you can apply a lot of power, I get the idea of performance, maybe even control and being effective. But I find the alternative much more to my liking.

Thomas
Posts: 220
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2013 3:24 am

Re: Casting extremely soft rods - what changes?

#17

Post by Thomas » Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:31 am

By the way Jarmo - are you using the original G-series or the new one? I have the old one. Very different from the new one. The new one is stiffer, lighter and much easier to cast.

jarmo
Posts: 146
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2017 12:48 pm

Re: Casting extremely soft rods - what changes?

#18

Post by jarmo » Sat Oct 19, 2019 7:07 am

Thomas wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:31 am
By the way Jarmo - are you using the original G-series or the new one?
There are three generations now: G, G2 and Gs. I have the newest one, Gs. (I wanted a 4-piece rod.)
Thomas wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:31 am
The new one is stiffer, lighter and much easier to cast.
Don’t you start shattering my illusions! ;)

carlz
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Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 3:39 pm

Re: Casting extremely soft rods - what changes?

#19

Post by carlz » Sat Oct 19, 2019 12:22 pm

I found that my casting improved dramatically as I started changing between softer and stiffer rods for training. There isn't a task on the CI or MCI test that cant be done with a softer rod (and I don't really consider most IM6 rods soft). The principles still apply.
  • The line follows the tip
  • the acceleration should continue to the stop
  • The loop is formed after acceleration stops (the rod tip is slowing down and the line is passing the tip)
The change in a slower rod is the rod bends more and deeper into the butt section.
  • Widen the arc, because the rod will flex more. Rotational creep can cause problems here
  • Apply power slower. Everything gets delayed in the cast. Much more Drag in the early parts, with the rotation coming much later in the cast. The rotation has to be applied evenly to avoid a dip in the rod tip.
  • the counterflex after the stop is going to happen, so if you want to avoid it, you have to play with the end of the cast with dampening the stop or raising your arm to account for some of the counterflex. I really haven't figured this part out.
For normal (trout/freshwater) fishing, the slow rod can be a lot more relaxing as the rod will load with a lot less effort. However, some days I'm just not patient enough to do this and I'm throwing tails.

PS, those G rods are nice. The original G8445 and G8455 (5pc) rods are really nice.

Viking Lars
Posts: 541
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:45 am

Re: Casting extremely soft rods - what changes?

#20

Post by Viking Lars » Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:22 pm

I've found that when casting softer rods, a significant "follow-through" or "follow-forward" helps negotiate the bigger counter flex. Otherwise I pretty much agree with Lasse on the differences between casting "long" and "short" rods.

Man - I remember that Avanta well. I also remember winning a comp with a 112' cast, which I thought was pretty damned sensational with that rod :-).

Lars

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