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jarmo
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#11

Post by jarmo » Wed Oct 24, 2018 12:32 pm

troutman41 wrote:I was watching this video of Christopher Rownes and in order to get anywhere near throwing those kind of loops I have to adopt a style like his,arm out to the side with that sort of lifting action near the end of the stroke.No matter what I do with the Jason Borgers foundation cast style I can't get anywhere near those tight loops.
Jason Borger’s foundation style gives you a highly controlled vertical plane that tracks excellently. (That is, your forward cast and backcast are aligned.) I find that a great strength in short to midrange casting, and when going for accuracy.

Even at midrange, a late rotation - which is often associated with those sexy loops - can be challenging to achieve with this style. A lot of care is required to maintain a pull early in the stroke. It’s also very easy to rotate too much. Still, the overall stroke is very controlled and therefore repeatable.

At longer distances I may need to watch my backcast and increase the amount of translation. I find both of these difficult in Jason’s style. In fact, because I am as stiff as a board, I find watching my backcast difficult with any style that involves a strictly vertical rod plane.

For my CI exam I went almost exclusively with this vertical style. However, to get a better grip of MCI 85’ and beyond, I have now started practicing distance casting with tilted plane and added 15’+ in two days.

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#12

Post by Paul Arden » Wed Oct 24, 2018 1:14 pm

Hi Jarmo,

That’s a great improvement! At some point a tilted casting plane will cause a problem for distance because when the rod unloads and moves to Counterflex the loop is tilted. I’ve seen this create a wave in the fly leg not unlike a horizontal tail which on a distance delivery will cause the fly to hook over to the inside.

The 170 is outside the exam but I have a video of Mikael carrying 100ft of Redfish 9.5 line in Cumbria. This can only be done with perfect tracking and the line over the tip. I’ll try to post the video today.

Cheers, Paul
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Paul Arden
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#13

Post by Paul Arden » Wed Oct 24, 2018 1:45 pm



I realise that this is a fair jump from the beginning of the thread :p but I think that it shows that a vertical stroke and loop is the most efficient. This is 100ft of Redfish 9.5 line carried to the backing knot. Interestingly Mikael starts with that out and gradually picks it off the floor front and back. Slipping line from a shorter pickup I could only get to around 95ft. I was most impressed with this casting. Mikael has the best and straightest carry that I have seen (and he's wearing socks).

Cheers, Paul
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troutman41
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#14

Post by troutman41 » Wed Oct 24, 2018 2:01 pm

Tried the vertical cast today and although they are narrow they are not pointed.I am generally trying to keep the line over the tip all the time.Played a lot of squash and a bit of golf in my time I remember when I changed things like grip and swing my game could go down the tubes for months but then improved and better than it ever was.I have changed my grip and keeping a tight eye on my tracking and trying to encompass the rest of the information which will take time its harder to change old habits with age but its a great feeling when you can do a really long cast with little effort and really relaxed.So the plan is to be able to do it consistently.

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#15

Post by troutman41 » Wed Oct 24, 2018 2:06 pm

Amazing that guy can do that."Socks" that's were I was going wrong Paul. :yeahhh:

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#16

Post by Paul Arden » Wed Oct 24, 2018 2:19 pm

:D :D Yes it's all about socks!!!


I haven't watched this video in a while, but there is quite a lot of useful information in there for building a fishing distance cast: http://www.sexyloops.com/flycast/fishing-distance-cast/

How much line can you carry Troutman? Working on carry is a very useful exercise. You reach a certain carry length which gives you enough time to pick targets before you make the casting strokes. I think I talk about that in the Comp distance video.

Cheers, Paul
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Thomas
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#17

Post by Thomas » Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:23 pm

Hi,

I cast "the Jason way" for most of my fishing. Its a great style that offers great loop-control and versatility within a compact stroke. For maximum distance the 170 is of course better and Jasons style is also not ideal for casting weighted and/or very big flies. A good way to increase distance with this style is to drift or to use what Jason calls layback and to pull the rod slightly less down and more forward on the forward cast.

Cheers

Thomas

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#18

Post by Thomas » Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:36 pm

Hi again,

Troutman - how do you grip the rod? Jasons style involves using the three point grip. If you grip the rod with the thumb on top its very easy to bring the rod to far back in the backcast - your backcast loop will then be wide and low and it will then be impossible to make a nice pointy vertical loop on the forward cast unless you aim at the sky.

Cheers

Thomas

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#19

Post by troutman41 » Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:32 pm

Hi Paul,I will measure carry tomorrow.Thomas I changed from thumb on top to key grip this feels comfortable and for some reason I haven't even tried the three point grip.

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Lasse Karlsson
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#20

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Thu Oct 25, 2018 8:59 am

Jasons foundation stroke:


https://vimeo.com/132726013

Three point grip is just Jasons prefered grip, its not essential to the foundation stroke. And Chris cast similar several times in the clip, he just uses more wrist and less elbow. And its also very similar to flipflopping, Paul's "style".

To get the tight loops, one has to accelerate the line as straight as possible, and then get the tip of the rod to stay close to where one stopped accelerating the line. And as Paul says, make sure the tip isn't in the way of the oncoming line.

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Lasse
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