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Buck Fever Footnote

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Geenomad
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Buck Fever Footnote

#1

Post by Geenomad » Sun Apr 21, 2019 11:51 pm

FYI post. The mention of buck fever in another thread got me thinking and then researching. Don't propose even a brief lit review there because it is something I may take further in another project I am working on - Biomechanics and Sensory Motor Learning which is a follow up to my work on casting mechanics.

There are various theories on what causes performance to deteriorate under various forms of pressure. Not a term I like but it is widely known as "choking". It is about anxiety/pressure splitting or diverting attention away from where we want it to be.

More here: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10 ... src=recsys

Last cast syndrome, I suspect, involves a similar attention loss, though not necessarily induced by state anxiety.

Cheers
Mark
"The line of beauty is the result of perfect economy." R. W. Emerson.
https://thecuriousflycaster.com

John Waters
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#2

Post by John Waters » Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:32 am

A very interesting topic Mark, thanks for posting. I like your work. I find it interesting that you can get a number of sports people who have equivalent technique skills to compete over time but one will achieve greater consistency of results than the others. I call it their application skill, that being their ability to apply that technique skill in the heat of competition. It does not matter if that competition is a casting event environment, a fishing environment or in fact any environment where an individual wishes to perform a skill task. They only variable in that environment, at that moment, is themselves and as the article says, it is about the individual’s skill to block out the environment. Over time application skill becomes the most important skill, but the least practised. There are a number of focus points when training application skill, but the one that gets little attention is the feelings and feedback associated with the fun of achievement. IMHO, that is the most important for any individual who wants to reproduce good technique, in all environments, on all occasions, in any activity they pursue.

John

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Graeme H
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#3

Post by Graeme H » Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:28 am

Hi Mark,

Like John, I like the idea of gathering experiences from other sports and applying them to ours.

I think there is a distinction between "buck fever" and "last cast syndrome" though. Or at least, what I see as that. Last cast syndrome is something I see in students all the time, whether we are on the water or the grass. It's nearly always shown by people who are new to fly but not fishing. Usually, they are bringing their "cast" from spin fishing, where it's an all-out push for distance and the final position of the rod tip is not important to them.

For these guys, it's an unconscious action. Once they are made aware of their actions, we can usually work through it with some explanations about why the penultimate cast was better than their final one.

Of course, when buck fever hits, they will often revert to form and open that presentation cast arc right up again. That's where your work may come in handy. I'm looking forward to reading what you eventually publish.

Cheers,
Graeme

(BTW, my personal remedy for Buck Fever is to watch the back cast. I know everyone says "keep your eye on the target", but I find watching that back cast before the presentation cast helps me stay calm. Maybe it's the familiarity (routine) of doing so that keeps me from losing my cool on that final presentation stoke. Whatever the reason, it works for me. When I played basketball, the final deep exhalation before making a free-throw had the same effect.)
FFi CCI

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Bernd Ziesche
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#4

Post by Bernd Ziesche » Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:32 am

John Waters wrote:Over time application skill becomes the most important skill, but the least practised.
Hi John,
When I started to run fly casting demos on ff shows, I went to the most well known beach in Hamburg in summer and started fly casting practise in the middle of that crouded place. Lots of people throwing all kind of comments to me. :) After that I never again got nervous casting in front of people. Kind if a shock therapy? Worked for me though. Regards Bernd
http://www.first-cast.de
The first cast is always the best cast.

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Paul Arden
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#5

Post by Paul Arden » Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:09 am

Hi Graeme,

I don't think taking your eye off a moving Tarpon is a good idea, however remembering the backcast is absolutely imperative. When teach Snakehead shots I'm constantly reminding the angler to a) slip line on the lift and b) hit a bell on the backcast. The first thing that absolutely must go through the shot takers mind is his backcast target. But when you have a 100lb Tarpon suddenly appear in front of you, then the subconscious takes over - that's when the guys who do it more and practise for it are in the game. If you can remember the backcast then you're better than 90% of the guys out there!

Cheers, Paul
It's an exploration; bring a flyrod.

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Graeme H
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#6

Post by Graeme H » Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:52 am

Paul Arden wrote:I don't think taking your eye off a moving Tarpon is a good idea, however remembering the backcast is absolutely imperative.
If I ever get to throw a fly at a tarpon, I'll try to remember both points. :D
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John Waters
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#7

Post by John Waters » Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:18 am

Hi Bernd,

Sounds like you’ve refined your application skill very well by training in an environment full of distractions.

I had some interesting chats with a football coach here in Melbourne about goal kicking training and applying the correct technique in front of 100,000 people on grand final day to win the premiership. The real football that is (AFL), not the catchem’ and killem’ code, they play in NSW and Queensland, nor that one that is played the world over for which you pay $200 plus for a pair of boots and hit the ball with your head.
His response was “you train as you play” and that means reproducing that noisy and distracting environment.

You’ve nailed it I’d say.

It is all about routine, one AFL legend played for a team in Melbourne which had all home games at an indoor stadium, and away games in stadia open to the elements. His routine was, before kicking for goal, to throw some grass in the air to check the wind. He did that when the roof was closed and no wind was present when playing indoors because that was his routine and he never altered it, irrespective of the environment.


John

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#8

Post by Geenomad » Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:04 am

Thanks guys. Appreciate the feedback. Will keep my powder dry on explaining how I think this stuff works or fails to work until I am much better read on the subject. But yes, it is bloody interesting how the body and mind interact. Any idea that they are separate and independent systems is silly buggers stuff.

With last cast syndrome, at times I still find myself putting more into the delivery than I want to and I've worked very hard to avoid that mistake. It is definitely nothing to do with anxiety but perhaps older automaticity displacing newer. I threw an awful lot of things a long way before I ever picked up a fly rod. Skinny kid with a good left arm.

I have no doubt that other sports have insights to offer us but equally a lot of what I have read so far affirms accepted knowledge and technique developed without any reference to biomechanics and sensory motor learning/control.

More later. Meantime I'm looking for volunteers willing to review draft material. Please let me know if you are interested.

Oh and if you are interested more generally, the link has most of the search terms you might need for google scholar as well as being a good review of the lit up to 3 years ago.

Cheers
Mark
"The line of beauty is the result of perfect economy." R. W. Emerson.
https://thecuriousflycaster.com

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#9

Post by Paul Arden » Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:44 am

I’m with Bernd. There is nothing more intimidating than teaching a large crowd with a microphone. Took me years to get used to it. However the upside is just casting - making shots, competing - is so much easier! It’s possible to really concentrate on throwing your best when you don’t have to talk about it :D

Cheers, Paul
It's an exploration; bring a flyrod.

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Michael Rebholz
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#10

Post by Michael Rebholz » Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:17 pm

I m also with bernd, the more you cast in front of people, the better. Even in front of people who dont want to know.

Here s also another tip: Yoga

it sounds ridiculous but i know it works. Yoga teaches breathing techniques and exercises to discipline yourself and to control movements better. It hepled me big time. seriously, as well in my casting as well as performance in front of people.

I think thats the way it works: You concentrate more on your breathing and relaxing and by doing that the casting comes naturally as you do relax thruogh controlled breathing. Kinda focusing on something different that lets the other stuff (that u can do anyway) come by itself.

Cheers and tight lines

Michael

Ps: interesting thread

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