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Static Roll Cast - Hauling

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Bernd Ziesche
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Static Roll Cast - Hauling

#1

Post by Bernd Ziesche » Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:28 am

Hi everyone,
Do you haul your static roll cast? If yes, what is the reason you haul that cast? If not, then why not?
Thanks,
Bernd
http://www.first-cast.de
The first cast is always the best cast.

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Graeme H
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Static Roll Cast - Hauling

#2

Post by Graeme H » Mon Apr 29, 2019 12:27 pm

The only time I've done it was learning to do it for the MCI exam. Seemed like a strange task at the time, since I can cast it just as far without the haul. :( If I need to cast further, I make a dynamic roll cast or a weird little roll cast that is a hybrid of a dynamic roll and a static roll cast. (Basically a poke then a roll cast with a big D loop.)

I'm watching this thread because I want someone to explain where the haul might come in useful in a static roll cast.

Cheers,
Graeme
FFi CCI

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Paul Arden
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Static Roll Cast - Hauling

#3

Post by Paul Arden » Mon Apr 29, 2019 12:55 pm

It depends.

For EFFA Masters they needed an 18m static roll cast with no line extended in the D-loop behind the caster. With the XXD at the time I could cast 18.5m without a haul. I started with the right amount of line and and without shooting could reach the distance. If I hauled the distance was less because I shortened the amount of line outside the tip.

However with other lines it is different and with shorter bellies I do cast further with a haul. Also if I need a tight loop as opposed to distance then I haul for sure.

In fishing, which is of course far more important!, I rarely use the static roll. Why do you ask, Bernd?

Cheers, Paul
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Bernd Ziesche
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Static Roll Cast - Hauling

#4

Post by Bernd Ziesche » Mon Apr 29, 2019 2:19 pm

Hi Graeme,
Hauling means to shorten the rod-leg in the D. Thus for the same momentum one needs significant more line speed. That's why hauling for many (me too) doesn't increase max distance. Lasse did recommend to haul only in the overhang. Good point but still most would end up with less mass being accelerated. What one can do, is starting with the beginning of the head at the tip. Then during the stroke (translational part) bringing additional overhang out. During rotation the haul may be placed then. Instead starting the first lay ("back cast"), while having overhang outside the tip, will make for the apex of the positive mass part coming closer to the tip compared to a none hauled cast. Regards Bernd
http://www.first-cast.de
The first cast is always the best cast.

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Bernd Ziesche
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Static Roll Cast - Hauling

#5

Post by Bernd Ziesche » Mon Apr 29, 2019 2:26 pm

I ask, Paul, because I was reading about teaching the single haul. Too often I have seen it being taught in a complete wrong/bad way or for a purpose, in which I'd hardly ever use it. Seems many instructors though teach the single haul for the roll cast. I have little experience in teaching the haul here, because I long ago concluded, that most of my students got a better roll cast without adding the haul in half of the time. Looking for different experience and methods how to get a benefit with adding the haul...
http://www.first-cast.de
The first cast is always the best cast.

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Paul Arden
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Static Roll Cast - Hauling

#6

Post by Paul Arden » Mon Apr 29, 2019 2:45 pm

I understand. If it’s not maximum distance you need, but line speed or a tight loop, then I think hauling can help. With regards distance with the lines I use I don’t see any increase. I’m guessing that most of those who teach it haven’t measured their respective casts.

Cheers, Paul
It's an exploration; bring a flyrod.

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John Waters
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Static Roll Cast - Hauling

#7

Post by John Waters » Mon Apr 29, 2019 6:29 pm

I do it all the time in the roll cast section of Fly accuracy events on water.

John

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Graeme H
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Static Roll Cast - Hauling

#8

Post by Graeme H » Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:09 pm

Bernd Ziesche wrote:...

What one can do, is starting with the beginning of the head at the tip. Then during the stroke (translational part) bringing additional overhang out.....

Regards Bernd
Thanks for those thoughts Bernd. They make sense. They also help to explain to me why I have always found it hard to make it work, since I prefer to use long heads or DT lines during my practice. There was never a time when I'd be able to develop overhang in a static roll cast.

I ended up making an ineffective haul just to satisfy the requirements of the MCI exam, making a roll cast that would reach over 55' without a haul in any case but adding one for display purposes only. The haul was a bare minimum, being maybe 30cm long.

(Torque thrust and pull back give me the tight loops, lifting the rod tip gently after loop formation kept the loop travelling nicely.)

Cheers,
Graeme
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John Waters
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Static Roll Cast - Hauling

#9

Post by John Waters » Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:35 am

Where in the stroke are you hauling Graeme?

John

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Bernd Ziesche
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Static Roll Cast - Hauling

#10

Post by Bernd Ziesche » Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:56 am

Hi Graeme,
In order to get max distance, releasing the line early is a huge catalyst! Like Paul I had to learn the 18m EFFA static roll with no line behind the tip at the start of the delivery stroke. I got stucked on 18,5m. Then by accident I hit 20+. Early release was the accident. Never had to train to easily hit those 18m again.
It's not easy to efficiently use the hole stroke length right from the start to hit max speed at the end WHEN starting of a "dead arm position". Many struggle and start too slow! Using a bit lower forward stop lengthens the arc on the most effective side though. Combined with early release the lower stop still works.
Cheers
Bernd
http://www.first-cast.de
The first cast is always the best cast.

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