How do you do the (very) short of it?

[Geenomad]

Got to a point in researching the biomechanics of fly casting and ran out of data. Haven't found and can't think of any mo-cap footage, explanation or write up of a really short cast that is convincing. (I rule out any account that mentions rod loading.) The vid footage I've seen actually shows someone doing something other than what they say they doing.

My interest is in very short casts - say only 6' of fly line plus leader or just the leader. What bits of the body do we move to make such casts accurately? My sample of one says mostly wrist flick and a tad of forearm extension.

How do you do it?. No video footage required. An indoor pantomime will probably be enough. All answers gratefully received.

Cheers
Mark

[Boisker]

I make a lot of casts like that on my local rivers..
Cast would be 90% from the wrist, with perhaps an inch or so of forearm movement. The wrist action needs to be very crisp if you want to turn over a 10’ leader with such a short length of fly line.

[Bernd Ziesche]

Hi Mark,
https://vimeo.com/101840776
I don't cast short lines in just one style.
The first 3 in the vid all work fine for me. Which one I choose depends on my tackle. Pretty soft rod + short but heavy line and I use less wrist. Stiffer rod more wrist. And then it depends on the length of leader. Long leader + dry fly easily may ask for more speed to straighten. More wrist again.
Regards
Bernd

[Geenomad]

Thanks guys.

Matt. From a sample of two we have 100% agreement In truth I went outside, strung up and made a few casts - 6' of line and then leader only. Had to be sure I wasn't imagining things. Quite sexy loops too.

Bernd. Yes mate. I realise you can do it with various body movement and that the gear in question can also change. Interestingly, you chose the wrist dominant technique first and, like Matt and I, there was just a touch of forearm. Also I am wondering if the gear you were using equated to a normal rod with just a short amount line beyond the tip.

Sooo...rephrasing for greater specificity. Assume a floating line, 5wt medium fast rod, 10' leader and 6 feet of line beyond the tip. What would be your typical technique? No hidden agenda here as I'm not trying to define narrowly how a very short cast should be made, just how it is usually made with typical gear.

Cheers
Mark

[John Waters]

I use a forearm dominated technique but in the plane of the shoulder so upper arm is braced. I use that for most standard distances but I agree with Bernd, the stroke technique is optional because of the distance cast. I teach the shoulder braces the upper arm as much as possible. One throwing coach I respect greatly uses the term, “throw with your armpit”, which I believe is structurally correct for casting as well.

John

[Paul Arden]

Hi Mark,

I’m not sure why you rule out rod loading because it’s important to remember that the rod bends against its own mass with these short line and/or leader only casts. This enables us to still get a straight tip path despite little line mass. How significant rod unloading is to the contribution of line speed I can’t say, but I wouldn’t rule it out either.

I’m also mostly use wrist but also usually significant pull-back or torque twist especially if I’m trying to place the fly down first. If anything I actually increase the speed particularly when it comes to casting a long leader and no fly line. Trajectories are obviously very important since you want the leader to straighten leaving the fly on the water.

Cheers, Paul

[Lasse Karlsson]

Sooo...rephrasing for greater specificity. Assume a floating line, 5wt medium fast rod, 10' leader and 6 feet of line beyond the tip. What would be your typical technique? No hidden agenda here as I'm not trying to define narrowly how a very short cast should be made, just how it is usually made with typical gear.

Cheers
Mark

9 foot rod?

Tiny shoulder, tiny elbow, tiny wrist and a flick of the fingers. Trying to keep the rest of my body rigid, but relaxed. Rod load is so minut, and the tippath so short that you have to be selling rods to include it

Cheers
Lasse

[Geenomad]

Great stuff guys.Thank you muchly. Been a long day and I'm heading for bed so will get back again tomorrow at greater length and explain more fully why I am asking.

One question though now. John, are we talking forearm dominated even for a the shortest of casts, say leader only? Not saying it's wrong or such just curious as ever.

Nightie night.

Mark

[Paul Arden]

If you are flicking the fly with leader only and using high speed to deliver it, Lasse, I think you’ll find rod bend to be remarkably similar to a much longer cast. I remember vividly Gordy’s video of casting without a flyline. With a 20’ leader and no fly line outside the tip, and a bushy dry fly, you need speed.

Cheers, Paul

[Lasse Karlsson]

Hi Paul

I wasn't aware the topic was high speed casting
I walked around the highschool throwing tight leader loops as warmup for my MCI while you where sleeping out your hangover, so I think I have a pretty good idea about the amount of bend in a short cast

Medium fast rod (9 feet) 30 feet of 5 weight (true) and a 9 foot leader outside the tip can look like this:



https://vimeo.com/14810209

Take away 24 feet of flyline and it's a much smaller bend. And movements.

Why do you want to throw 20 feet of leader and a bushy dryfly? Sounds like a recipe for spooking trout

Cheers
Lasse