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Reducing bounce from backcast shoot

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jarmo
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Reducing bounce from backcast shoot

#1

Post by jarmo » Mon Jul 22, 2019 4:45 pm

Is there a smart but easy way - and I mean super easy, it’s for me - to reduce the bounce resulting from a backcast shoot with a relatively heavy line?

jarmo
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Re: Reducing bounce from backcast shoot

#2

Post by jarmo » Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:05 pm

My question looked pretty weird on its own, and since I can no longer edit, let me add:

I am casting with a 2-handed rod, so there is no hauling hand to cushion with.

Is this purely a question of getting the timing and length of my drift right?

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James9118
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Re: Reducing bounce from backcast shoot

#3

Post by James9118 » Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:09 pm

Hi,

If you're getting a lot of 'tip bounce' with a heavy line I'd be looking to drift so that the rod was more pointing down the line (what position to you drift to now?). I'd also look to take some power out and perhaps slip more line in order to 'soften' things off. Obviously if after you've stopped on the back cast you're still in a position where there's a large angle between the rod and the line then the tip is utilised at the start of the F/C and hence feels 'bouncier' than when it's more in-line. Hope that helps.

James

jarmo
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Re: Reducing bounce from backcast shoot

#4

Post by jarmo » Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:04 am

James9118 wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:09 pm
If you're getting a lot of 'tip bounce' with a heavy line I'd be looking to drift so that the rod was more pointing down the line (what position to you drift to now?). I'd also look to take some power out and perhaps slip more line in order to 'soften' things off.
That looks like sound advice to me. Influencing the rod-line-angle is something I certainly had not thought of.

The extra trouble I have here is that the back of the head is relatively heavy. Therefore the head has the tendency to sag while aerialised. This increases the risk of both decreasing power and slipping more line. If the head sags, on the following cast the tip of the line will follow the sagged shape and tick.

The other option is simply picking up and carrying more line to begin with, but that introduces its own issues. On the pickup I am playing at the boundary of the head/running-line transition at the moment. The heavy head certainly has the mass to pull a good deal of running line. (It is 50% heavier than the RIO recommended overhead casting line for this rod model.)

I will keep playing with these things and see how they work.

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Re: Reducing bounce from backcast shoot

#5

Post by Mangrove Cuckoo » Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:58 pm

jarmo

Two-handed? I cannot be of much help there... but I am quite familiar with what you are experiencing.

I learned to give back a bit at the right time with a single hand rod. But I think my best advice is to play with your fly and leader combination. Balancing them against your line can lessen the excess energy.

Heavy heads fall quickly but big flies can seem to almost float in the air! It's a tough nut to crack.

Take your leader kit out to the field and experiment with different profiles.
“Very simple man. Catching fish makes me happy. Scaringly simple.”

Håvard Stubø

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James9118
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Re: Reducing bounce from backcast shoot

#6

Post by James9118 » Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:36 pm

Oops - I missed the double handed bit there - I thought by 'backcast shoot' you were slipping line into a single handed cast - sorry!

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Re: Reducing bounce from backcast shoot

#7

Post by jarmo » Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:03 pm

James9118 wrote:
Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:36 pm
Oops - I missed the double handed bit there - I thought by 'backcast shoot' you were slipping line into a single handed cast - sorry!
Zero need to be sorry. First, your excellent advice applies to both rod types, I think. Second, you did not miss my 2-handed specification: I was editing my vague early posts exactly at the same time you were writing your reply.

Will return to other comments later, need to run now.

jarmo
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Re: Reducing bounce from backcast shoot

#8

Post by jarmo » Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:25 am

Mangrove Cuckoo wrote:
Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:58 pm
But I think my best advice is to play with your fly and leader combination. Balancing them against your line can lessen the excess energy.

Heavy heads fall quickly but big flies can seem to almost float in the air! It's a tough nut to crack.

Take your leader kit out to the field and experiment with different profiles.
Indeed it seems that I enter leader (and fly/fluff size) territory regardless of the approach I choose - longer carry or backcast shoot.

I just had a practice session, and was able to increase pickup and carry length. But the result was consistent ticking. Here's why. To keep the entire head aerialized without sagging, linespeed has to be considerable. But then the end of the heavy spey line kicks over like a mule and ticks on the subsequent cast. This was with a 15' leader hand-tied from three different diameters.

And behold: once again what initially seemed like a relatively straightforward learning experience has turned into a problem-solving task. Nice!

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Re: Reducing bounce from backcast shoot

#9

Post by Paul Arden » Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:45 pm

Hi Jarmo,

One thing you can do is use different casting angles so that the bounce is more aligned to the trajectory. I’ve seen Haysie use this technique for the forward cast where it matters more maybe. Also immediately shooting line at this point seems to help, but I tend to not shoot line on the final backcast in order to have higher tension to really try to straighten everything.

Can I ask why you are doing this? Is it for purpose or aesthetics? Using a stiffer rod helps too of course.

(Sorry I have little internet at the moment!)

Cheers, Paul
It's an exploration; bring a flyrod.

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jarmo
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Re: Reducing bounce from backcast shoot

#10

Post by jarmo » Thu Jul 25, 2019 5:56 pm

Paul Arden wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:45 pm
Can I ask why you are doing this?
Sure thing: THCI test 100’ shoot, at least one false cast required.

What really caught me off guard was the kick with a leader that is 15’ long. I truly could not see that coming and it cost me a couple of days. It might play a central role in (blind) pickup problems with longer line as well.

A mentor would fix this in no time, but where would be the pain in that? (We have none available atm.) When I have bumped into insurmountable trouble I have tried to pick the best brains around - that is, here. That’s why I have asked recently about stillwater roll casting, single spey 90 degrees and now this. I might be repeating myself, but the helpfulness of members of this forum makes this an amazing place.

I have a tendency to get buried in details - this task might be one shovel of soil for this test event - but I will do my best not to bore you to death. Anyway, I have a line that false casts beautifully @80’ but is unsuitable otherwise - overhead casting plays a pretty small role in this test. Pickup at default overhead test distance 70’ (possibly on stillwater) is much easier but fails to shoot to 100’+.

I am traveling now and only took my underhand gear with me. I will be doing some Anderson-style casting for a couple of days and will return to longer lines next week.

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