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Casting with guides out 90 degrees

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clayed21085
Posts: 40
Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:23 pm

Casting with guides out 90 degrees

#1

Post by clayed21085 » Fri Sep 27, 2019 12:42 pm

This is something that isn't mentioned like it should in that fly line sticks when wet, and if the guides are not turned outward or if there isn't a slight deviation of the reel (therefore the guides as well) at least 45 degrees in the backcast the line will touch the blank and stick, and your haul return will fail ( in my experience, this is why I practice on water!) The only exception I have found is that only after most of the head is out of the rod tip it'll compensate by forcefully pulling the line through the guides against the additional friction. Casting with rod rings turned out 90 with thumb is too is awkward for me with reel pressing against my hand, I've had better luck with a v like grip, it keeps my wrist coming into contact with reel but I feel I have a weaker grip this way. Any suggestions and opinions most appreciated.

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Graeme H
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Re: Casting with guides out 90 degrees

#2

Post by Graeme H » Fri Sep 27, 2019 1:16 pm

G'day James,

I used to experience the same problem. It's sometimes called "haul lock" because the haul totally locks up.

I decided to build all my rods with guides that use SiC inserts (spinning rod guides) and that eliminated the problem for me. Others do twist the sections of their multi-piece rods so that the guides are not aligned with the reel.

Cheers,
Graeme
FFi CCI

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Paul Arden
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Re: Casting with guides out 90 degrees

#3

Post by Paul Arden » Sun Sep 29, 2019 4:26 pm

Hi James,

Certainly as Graeme points out the problem disappears with lined rings. With four piece rods and wire rings I twist the top three sections out to 45 degrees and keep the reel in plane. With two piece rods it’s more problematic, but I only encounter those in distance comps - then I use the same grip I normally use - but am very aware of the unusual position of the reel, and try very hard to keep it at the same angle throughout the stroke. With the Torzite rings on the HT10 I twist the tip out to 45, the butt ring in to around 60 and I dissect the two with the second section. I can’t tell you the number of people who, when they first pick up this rod, straighten all the rings 😂

Cheers, Paul
It's an exploration; bring a flyrod.

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daniel
Posts: 91
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:06 pm
Location: Wales

Re: Casting with guides out 90 degrees

#4

Post by daniel » Sun Oct 13, 2019 7:15 am

Paul Arden wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 4:26 pm
Hi James,

Certainly as Graeme points out the problem disappears with lined rings. With four piece rods and wire rings I twist the top three sections out to 45 degrees and keep the reel in plane. With two piece rods it’s more problematic, but I only encounter those in distance comps - then I use the same grip I normally use - but am very aware of the unusual position of the reel, and try very hard to keep it at the same angle throughout the stroke. With the Torzite rings on the HT10 I twist the tip out to 45, the butt ring in to around 60 and I dissect the two with the second section. I can’t tell you the number of people who, when they first pick up this rod, straighten all the rings 😂

Cheers, Paul
Hi Paul, if the problem disappears with lined rings, why do you need to twist the sections on the Torzite ringed HT10?

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Paul Arden
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Re: Casting with guides out 90 degrees

#5

Post by Paul Arden » Mon Oct 14, 2019 5:42 am

I twist the first section in to about 60 degrees. This is because of the frame of the ring getting in the way of the line with a full 170 style distance cast. I don’t like all the rings turned in - maybe because I broke three rods that way one weekend - it could have been a coincidence but it has shaken my confidence in twisting inwards.

The tip I twist out to 45 degrees simply because I’m pretty sure that it twists around anyway especially for many casts where we tilt the rod and or loop plane. The section below this I dissect the two angles!

Everyone who picks up my rod tries to straighten them after giving me a weird look :D

Cheers, Paul
It's an exploration; bring a flyrod.

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daniel
Posts: 91
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:06 pm
Location: Wales

Re: Casting with guides out 90 degrees

#6

Post by daniel » Mon Oct 14, 2019 5:54 am

Ah ok, that makes sense. I hadn't considered the frame getting in the way.

On a factory built rod with snakes, you turn the top 3 sections outward 45? So anti clockwise for a right handed caster? Doesn't this mean your hauling across the blank just before the stripping guide?

Cheers
Dan

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Paul Arden
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Re: Casting with guides out 90 degrees

#7

Post by Paul Arden » Mon Oct 14, 2019 6:28 am

Hi Dan, yes and yes! On my rods this way you will see a groove across the stripping guide epoxy. The other alternative is to twist inwards to 90 (but I’m sure the rod tip will twist out on its axis anyway - have a look at where the tip ring grooves!). I actually prefer to haul around the blank since it puts less force on the ring/rod connection - I have hauled a few stripping guides completely off the blank before :D

The frame on the Torzites is angled forwards like conventional spinning rod rings. The only issue I have with this is hauling. If they ever produce straight framed “fly guides” then I will use them and cast with them all aligned.

Cheers, Paul
It's an exploration; bring a flyrod.

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