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The overhang question

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clayed21085
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The overhang question

#1

Post by clayed21085 » Fri Oct 18, 2019 3:24 am

Speaking generally with your most common trout tapers, how much overhang should I expect to be able to handle as a competent caster in false casting situations? I know there's variables as rear taper length and of course skill level. I'm currently using a Cortland line with I believe a 47' head, but I'll confirm tomorrow.

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Paul Arden
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Re: The overhang question

#2

Post by Paul Arden » Fri Oct 18, 2019 4:10 am

Blimey. That’s a difficult question!! :D

As you point out the rear taper is a significant variable - as too is the running line thickness. Also “competent” can have many meanings!

At “expert” level, which can have a few meanings too - so maybe comp level might be better - there are very few 90’ lines that cannot be false cast to the backing knot, by a few people at least. Some are very clunky - like a TT.

And it is absolutely certain that this is (usually) not the best way to cast them for distance! Finding the right amount of overhang for a short belly line is a challenge, particularly if you only have 2 mins to figure it out.

So basically I have no idea how to answer your question :p 4m should certainly not be a problem. Let me know which Cortland line you are using. I have a selection here and if I have the same one I can have a play and let you know what I think.

Cheers, Paul
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Lasse Karlsson
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Re: The overhang question

#3

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:07 am

Without the back taper and with a thin shootingline, this is how it can look:



And without a haul :



As Paul says a rear taper and a thick runningline helps in keeping it a bit more stable.

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Lasse
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Paul Arden
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Re: The overhang question

#4

Post by Paul Arden » Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:41 am

I’m a huge believer in long belly lines and DTs for working on carry and distance. All sorts of faults start to appear that won’t be so apparent otherwise. For example a tracking fault with a short head fully out the tip ring won’t be nearly so apparent as with a long belly line (which will prevent long carries).

I used to never fish short belly lines but have since found a use for them for pick up and lay down shooting shots. Of course if I fished for imaginary sea trout in Denmark or Northern Germany I would be using shooting heads, and I’m sure there are other examples of situations where short belly WF lines have advantages (close quarter Speys for example). But for all round general fishing the longer heads I find much less limiting... if you can cast!

I think that last proviso is very important because the vast majority of fly anglers are really quite poor casters, many for example haven’t learned to roll cast or the double haul. Basic Spey casting is a mystery and 70ft overhead distance is considered a long cast, and indeed is a long cast for many.

However if you really want to improve your distance casting game (which in my opinion will improve all your casting game) I would thoroughly recommend a long belly line matching AFFTA standards. The SA MED Expert Distance is one of the lines that all serious distance casters use for at least some of their training. I also find DT lines to be very useful for distance casting practise.

It’s many years ago now, but about 15 years back the MED5 and TCR5 became a useful casting benchmark on the Board. Before this it was very difficult to compare casts. But then we had the Best of the West competition with Steve Rajeff throwing 115’ and a pretty much unknown Rick Hartman throwing 120’. And so lots of serious distance casters around Europe got the same tackle and tried to emulate this. Ultimately we now have the World Championships which in the 5WT distance has this line (not rod, which is open) as the standard.

Of course the level of casting at “elite level” has really risen as a result of this competition and 120’ is not usually going to win any medals. The great thing about this is that you don’t need to be a great athlete to be competitive. With skill that comes from practise anyone can be competitive at this level, even Lasse.

Sorry I might have jumped off topic slightly :D

Cheers, Paul
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clayed21085
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Re: The overhang question

#5

Post by clayed21085 » Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:44 pm

It's Cortland 444 "SL" and I also have Cortland modern trout which I haven't casted yet, really all I can afford.

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Paul Arden
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Re: The overhang question

#6

Post by Paul Arden » Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:46 pm

What line weight are you casting James?
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clayed21085
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Re: The overhang question

#7

Post by clayed21085 » Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:22 pm

A 5 weight paul

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Paul Arden
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Re: The overhang question

#8

Post by Paul Arden » Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:13 pm

I’ll have a rummage in the storeroom and see what I have. It might need a clean :D

Cheers, Paul
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clayed21085
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Re: The overhang question

#9

Post by clayed21085 » Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:32 pm

Sounds good, thx. Work all day today but will try to get out tomorrow and maybe cast for a little bit and film, but it all depends on the weather.

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Re: The overhang question

#10

Post by Paul Arden » Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:46 pm

It might be a little while before I can send it. I have two weeks of guiding straight and the guests change over the weekend. But I’m pretty sure I’ll have something suitable!

Cheers, Paul
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