Stroke length in relation to style

[John Waters]

Hi Graeme and All,

What term or terms do you use to describe the backward and forward movement of the stroke?

The simplest and, to some extent the most descriptive, is to "move" the rod hand. That describes what you do.

Then you can discuss how you do that and why you do that in a particular way.

That simple "what", "how" and "why" approach to describing technique transcends style and gives structure to the descriptive language of any body movement.

We sometimes complicate the language of casting. In my view, technique is what we should instruct, style is of interest only when it inhibits the correct technique required for the casting objective.

John

[Bianchetti Ivan]

I think the definitions are two, intersected, the barrel always pulls the line, the hand and the arm do not, at a certain point they give way to the left hand, she begins to pull, the arm and the hand push.

[nicholasfmoore]

Hi all,

Tlt/flip flop/andersson times two

After re reading that, Lasse, i agree with you! this push pull thing can be over complicated. I saw a GIF of Mel K with his 'pulling style'. However, not everyone agrees as it could be seen as a pushing style! Quite confusing indeed. However after reading John's post, i understand it now to be a pulling move as the rod is behind the body at the start of the forward cast.

The object we are moving is either behind, or in front of our body and we are moving it either to the front of, or behind our body. I view a shot-put action as a pushing action because the object we are moving starts in a position in front of the body, and we move it further forward of our body.

Hi John, that's one of the clearest explanations i have heard!

If one leads with the elbow (forward stroke) then one is usually considered to be a puller, leading with the hand, pusher. In both cases the rod is pulling the line regardless of your bodily inclinations. Then if we look at a backcast a d all bets are of. Pullers ie the down people, ie let gravity help you drop your arm and let the rod do the work BS squad tend to forget det that it goes up in the backcast

I didn't even think of the back cast when i wrote that

So what terms are we going for?

All the best

Nick

[Graeme H]

Hi Graeme and All,

What term or terms do you use to describe the backward and forward movement of the stroke?

Hi John,

Backward and forward sums it up. The how is important ...

I don't need to use the words push or pull in any lesson plan, other than to say that the tip is pulling the line and the line is pulling the tip.

I show the students how the hand translates prior to rotation (simplistically) and I describe and demonstrate the action as if painting a ceiling or wall ("vertical" or "horizontal" rod plane). To teach people "my" back cast, I show them a "frisbee throw" (it's Paul's back cast, but they haven't seen Paul do it ... )

When I was a novice, a well-meaning friend told me I had to "push the rod". I reckon that piece of advice put my development back by 18 months: to me, that meant I had to rotate very early in the stroke and push the rod through it. He used words without any demonstration or clarification. I've never forgotten the advice and I've never used the term since. (BTW, my friend has completely forgotten that he told me that.)

Cheers,
Graeme

[jarmo]

We sometimes complicate the language of casting. In my view, technique is what we should instruct, style is of interest only when it inhibits the correct technique required for the casting objective.

I would add that style is of interest also when it helps the correct technique required for the casting objective.

And that is what I am fascinated about. But don't worry, I will get over it, just give me some time.

[Lasse Karlsson]

I've said it before, style to me is that I can recognize the hippie dude casting from afar regardless of the technique he is using (flipflop /170/tlt etc.) and everyone else I know well.

Cheers
Lasse

[Geenomad]

[The] simple "what", "how" and "why" approach to describing technique transcends style and gives structure to the descriptive language of any body movement.

We sometimes complicate the language of casting. In my view, technique is what we should instruct, style is of interest only when it inhibits [/enables] the correct technique required for the casting objective.

Agree strongly. And since no two people/bodies are identical there will be both mechanical and neural (sensory motor) differences in how sound technique is and can be operationalised.

Ballet and fly casting both involve movement, technique and grace, hopefully. Grace is economy of movement. Fly casting is not governed by choreography.

Cheers
Mark

[Paul Arden]

While it may be confusing, particularly when overanalysed, in some circumstances teaching “pulling” can work very well indeed. Mel’s pulling a concrete block analogy is a very simple way of changing how someone uses his body bringing into play shoulder muscles and a better (more stable) use of weight shift.

Just because it doesn’t work for everyone doesn’t mean that it doesn’t work extremely well for some people! I certainly still use it from time to time. In fact I had a student last year who visited for a week, mostly to improve his SW fly casting technique and it was one of the things that really improved his game.

It’s very simple. Consequently I think it’s very clever too. It also has something else quite subtle about it, because it changes the caster’s perception from where he is trying to go in front to where his line is behind.

So I certainly wouldn’t abandon it! There are times when it’s brilliantly effective.

Cheers, Paul

[Mangrove Cuckoo]

I've said it before, style to me is that I can recognize the hippie dude casting from afar regardless of the technique he is using (flipflop /170/tlt etc.) and everyone else I know well.

Cheers
Lasse

"Hippie dude" !!!

Lasse,

Is being one a good thing or bad?

Now I just have to video myself casting so that you can categorize my "style".

[Lasse Karlsson]

Well, he used to look more like Buddha, in his better years that is now that he's growing hair all over, its hippie dude
Nothing bad, I like hippies!

Style is very personal, but has little to do with casting if you ask me

Cheers
Lasse