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Curve Casts

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Paul Arden
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Re: Curve Casts

#91

Post by Paul Arden » Wed Feb 26, 2020 12:46 pm

Something that I don’t think has been mentioned here is the trajectory of the backcast playing a critical role. For this cast to function I believe that we need a low trajectory backcast.

It’s also an important consideration for over and underpowered curves. For Overpowered we also need a backcast that is horizontal or slightly below. And for Underpowered I personally much prefer a backcast trajectory that is above the horizontal, so that I can use the trajectory to place the loop in a curve on the water without the need to “underpower”.

What is the backcast trajectory for the Twist Curve under the rod tip? I will play with this over the weekend. I’m off to a Fly Fishing Festival tomorrow.

Thanks,
Paul
It's an exploration; bring a flyrod.

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Malik
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Re: Curve Casts

#92

Post by Malik » Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:01 pm

Hi Paul,

According to my experience, you can cast the "overtip" (regular) twist/svirgolato cast with almost all the line trajectory you want on the backcast. Probably easier to learn it with a side cast and a low trajectory backcast, but with some practice, the backcast trajectory is no more a central issue. When i'm fishing I just adapt my backcast line trajectory to the conditions.
For the undertip twist cast variation, a low backcast with a rod tip slightly rising up (on the straightest path as possible) on the forward cast is according to me mandatory, because it's the only way to avoid collision between the rod leg and the twisting leader. Bring some extra tippet with you :D
And also try the twist cast off-shoulder.

Best regards !

malik

Bianchetti Ivan
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Re: Curve Casts

#93

Post by Bianchetti Ivan » Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:41 pm

Paul Arden wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 12:46 pm
Something that I don’t think has been mentioned here is the trajectory of the backcast playing a critical role. For this cast to function I believe that we need a low trajectory backcast.

It’s also an important consideration for over and underpowered curves. For Overpowered we also need a backcast that is horizontal or slightly below. And for Underpowered I personally much prefer a backcast trajectory that is above the horizontal, so that I can use the trajectory to place the loop in a curve on the water without the need to “underpower”.

What is the backcast trajectory for the Twist Curve under the rod tip? I will play with this over the weekend. I’m off to a Fly Fishing Festival tomorrow.

Thanks,
Paul
What matters in that launch is to cross the line, then back to the right, in front straight, (the line will cross in front, (in the forward launch the loop must be above), while in the launch of my movie, it is not important to direction behind, because the intersection is formed when it starts forward.

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Re: Curve Casts

#94

Post by Geenomad » Thu Feb 27, 2020 11:23 am

An observation for my fellow students of svirgolato. From Malik's excellent vids we can see that the primary movement which produces the standard cast is an outward arc of the rod hand at the stop. This is followed by another movement inward so the hand finishes more in line with the forward direction of the cast. Superficially it looks so slight as to be almost a small aesthetic flourish. This movement forms the second or bottom curve of the "S" that Boisker observed.

Today I realised it is essential to the final outcome. it enhances the switch back or kick around of the fly. Why is this so? My thinking is that it's because it affects the travel of the transverse wave - increasing the zip of the kick around. How? At just the right time It puts a little extra tension into the medium through which the wave travels. Waves travel faster through tighter media. Hauling does a similar job. Good old KE. We can't cast without it.

Moments like this make me glad again Vince Brandon encouraged me to include waves in my work on fly casting mechanics. Thanks mate. :cool:

Cheers
Mark
"The line of beauty is the result of perfect economy." R. W. Emerson.
https://thecuriousflycaster.com

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Malik
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Re: Curve Casts

#95

Post by Malik » Thu Feb 27, 2020 1:03 pm

Hi Mark,
Thank you for your feedback.
On the video, I exaggerated the movement for didactic purposes. Actually, with a shorter and lighter rod, this "S" that Boisker correctly detected is almost invisible. As soon as the weather and my schedule will allow, I'll make another video showing a variation on this standard cast obtained by turning the wrist from left to right. A bit more difficult.
Talking with Vince, we think — he will correct me if it's not the good way to put it — that the little extra tension that finally allows the leader to turn right probably could come from... the fall of the rod leg.
Best Regards
Malik

Geenomad
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Re: Curve Casts

#96

Post by Geenomad » Thu Feb 27, 2020 10:41 pm

Hi Malik
Yes, I see what you are saying. The falling of the rod leg should increase tension as it does in a normal overhead cast. No problem with that. However, I think it is the shape of the falling rod leg which determines how radically the fly will jump around - to the left or right.

What does seem clear, at least to me and for the moment, it that the secondary movement has an important effect and also that its timing is significant. Hence the little pause rather than continuous movement. Maybe it is a mini mend or maybe it is somehow producing a "pull back" effect which enhances propagation of the loop rather than of the transverse wave. Dunno. It's intriguing and perhaps your footage with the short rod will tell us something more.

Look forward to it.

Cheers
Mark
"The line of beauty is the result of perfect economy." R. W. Emerson.
https://thecuriousflycaster.com

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Malik
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Re: Curve Casts

#97

Post by Malik » Thu Feb 27, 2020 10:55 pm

Hi Mark,

Good points ! Slowly, we understand better and better the "mechanics" of this very efficient fishing cast. For a right handed, turning the wrist from the left to the right or from the right to the left has exactly the same effect on the main trajectory of the fly leg : it will turn left then right, because the the main force comme from the right to the left.

Take care

Malik

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Malik
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Re: Curve Casts

#98

Post by Malik » Sun Mar 01, 2020 10:44 pm

Paul Arden wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 6:21 pm
Like you Gary, I thought it was a dry fly only cast, but Malik told me he can turn Clousers around with this cast. He told me this yesterday and I haven’t had a chance to play with this yet. I suppose it depends highly on the weight of the fly compared to the weight of the line.
Cheers, Paul
Sunny Sunday In Switzerland. I just eliminated the point of the hook (2/0 TMC 811 S) of the fly on this video. Line is a SW WF 9. Leader is a furled leader of 9 feet 30 pounds.
I guess that some snook or bass fly fishermen/fisherwomen could be interested by this "hauling" version of the twist cast.
Not easy to control, a bit risky, but rewarding when the fish just behind the branch of the tree to your right eat it ! :yeahhh:



Best regards

Malik

Geenomad
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Re: Curve Casts

#99

Post by Geenomad » Sun Mar 01, 2020 11:11 pm

Thanks Malik. Interesting and informative once again.

Cheers
Mark
"The line of beauty is the result of perfect economy." R. W. Emerson.
https://thecuriousflycaster.com

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Re: Curve Casts

#100

Post by Paul Arden » Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:08 am

I’m going to train that. Thanks Malik! Any tips for reversing the angle, ie casting off the opposite shoulder? Bernd once gave me a tip to stiffen up the wrist for a backhand overpowered curve cast that has been extremely useful to me.

Thanks,
Paul
It's an exploration; bring a flyrod.

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