PLEASE NOTE: In order to post on the Board you need to have registered. To register please email paul@sexyloops.com including your real name and username. Registration takes less than 24hrs, unless Paul is fishing deep in the jungle!
Saltwater Casting Angles
Moderators: Paul Arden, stesiik
Saltwater Casting Angles
Saltwater Casters,
What is the best rod angle to cast a weighted fly for saltwater fishing? I’m particularly thinking about permit fishing where pinpoint accuracy is a must and wind is almost always a factor.
For me, casting with a more vertical rod angle allows for the best accuracy. Definitely a plus when the guide wants the fly 2 feet in front of the fish, 3 feet is too far away and 1 foot is too close.
However, a lot of internet literature and videos talk about casting side arm in saltwater. There are references to keeping the line “below the wind” which I don’t buy. But I have witnessed the wind blowing a cast far off course when using a vertical rod plane and the fly line has too much time to fall to the water. But then casting sidearm tends to “kick” the weighted fly at the end of its trajectory, producing an inaccurate cast.
While casting with a vertical rod and a cross wind you could always angle the cast downward but then the issue is the fly lands hard and spooks the fish.
Seems to me like there are a lot of trade offs with the different approaches and I’m curious what other folks think is best.
All the best,
Taylor
What is the best rod angle to cast a weighted fly for saltwater fishing? I’m particularly thinking about permit fishing where pinpoint accuracy is a must and wind is almost always a factor.
For me, casting with a more vertical rod angle allows for the best accuracy. Definitely a plus when the guide wants the fly 2 feet in front of the fish, 3 feet is too far away and 1 foot is too close.
However, a lot of internet literature and videos talk about casting side arm in saltwater. There are references to keeping the line “below the wind” which I don’t buy. But I have witnessed the wind blowing a cast far off course when using a vertical rod plane and the fly line has too much time to fall to the water. But then casting sidearm tends to “kick” the weighted fly at the end of its trajectory, producing an inaccurate cast.
While casting with a vertical rod and a cross wind you could always angle the cast downward but then the issue is the fly lands hard and spooks the fish.
Seems to me like there are a lot of trade offs with the different approaches and I’m curious what other folks think is best.
All the best,
Taylor
- Paul Arden
- Site Admin
- Posts: 19583
- Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:20 am
- Location: Belum Rainforest
- Contact:
Re: Saltwater Casting Angles
Hi Taylor,
Under normal circumstances I’ll cast straight over the tip with a vertical rod plane. For a while I experimented off the side (tilted casting plane) but like you I find it causes the fly to hook. (I actually use this to curve the leader sometimes).
I think the canted/tilted rod plane advice is for casters who are worried about hitting their rod with the heavy fly. Or it might have come from fear of hooking themselves, particularly when it’s windy.
If there is a crosswind blowing the fly leg off plane from the rod leg I tilt the casting plane slightly so that everything aligns. If there is a crosswind blowing onto the casting shoulder I cast off the opposite shoulder. Headwind - high backcast/low forward cast. Tailwind - Belgian Cast pickup followed by low backcast and high forward cast. If the fish is very close I cast a sidearm cast so that I don’t spook the fish with the rod appearing in it window.
But mostly - straight over the top
Cheers, Paul
Under normal circumstances I’ll cast straight over the tip with a vertical rod plane. For a while I experimented off the side (tilted casting plane) but like you I find it causes the fly to hook. (I actually use this to curve the leader sometimes).
I think the canted/tilted rod plane advice is for casters who are worried about hitting their rod with the heavy fly. Or it might have come from fear of hooking themselves, particularly when it’s windy.
If there is a crosswind blowing the fly leg off plane from the rod leg I tilt the casting plane slightly so that everything aligns. If there is a crosswind blowing onto the casting shoulder I cast off the opposite shoulder. Headwind - high backcast/low forward cast. Tailwind - Belgian Cast pickup followed by low backcast and high forward cast. If the fish is very close I cast a sidearm cast so that I don’t spook the fish with the rod appearing in it window.
But mostly - straight over the top
Cheers, Paul
-
- Posts: 1478
- Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:14 pm
- Location: Brisbane-Australia
- Contact:
Re: Saltwater Casting Angles
Hi Taylor
maybe this will give you some ideas
cheers
mike
maybe this will give you some ideas
cheers
mike
-
- Posts: 1051
- Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:51 am
Re: Saltwater Casting Angles
Taylor,
For me, there is no question that I prefer a low rod and low trajectory: no line or rod high in the air, and the shorter the distance the fly falls the quieter it hits. With some practice you can even get the fly to hook upward and stall, which lessens the impact even more. That "kick" you mentioned can be used as an advantage - you just need to get it to kick up!
The downside is it takes a lot of practice to get there. Instead of a sight line from your eye to the target, the sight line is now 9 feet away from your eye to the target. The only way become accurate is practice, practice, practice.
As for wind? Pray for it! Permit are much easier to approach and cast to when there is some chop.
For me, there is no question that I prefer a low rod and low trajectory: no line or rod high in the air, and the shorter the distance the fly falls the quieter it hits. With some practice you can even get the fly to hook upward and stall, which lessens the impact even more. That "kick" you mentioned can be used as an advantage - you just need to get it to kick up!
The downside is it takes a lot of practice to get there. Instead of a sight line from your eye to the target, the sight line is now 9 feet away from your eye to the target. The only way become accurate is practice, practice, practice.
As for wind? Pray for it! Permit are much easier to approach and cast to when there is some chop.
With appreciation and apologies to Ray Charles…
“If it wasn’t for AI, we wouldn’t have no I at all.”
“If it wasn’t for AI, we wouldn’t have no I at all.”
- Paul Arden
- Site Admin
- Posts: 19583
- Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:20 am
- Location: Belum Rainforest
- Contact:
Re: Saltwater Casting Angles
Interesting Gary! I’ve never fished for them where they’ve been that spooky. That must be fun! And quite frustrating too I should think
Cheers, Paul
Cheers, Paul
Re: Saltwater Casting Angles
Just to add something else into the mix, I've definitely seen fish on the flats spook from a 'flash' from the rod. As such, a lower rod may help limit the distance over which this flash could be seen by a fish.
James.
James.
- Paul Arden
- Site Admin
- Posts: 19583
- Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:20 am
- Location: Belum Rainforest
- Contact:
Re: Saltwater Casting Angles
Or just take the shine off the rod. If you have a glossy rod a Brillo pad will take off the shine. I’m sure you know I think it’s complete nonsense manufacturing rods with a glossy finish. When I was a teenager I used to paint them with matt varnish that came in little tins for modelling.
Cheers, Paul
Cheers, Paul
-
- Posts: 206
- Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2015 8:25 am
Re: Saltwater Casting Angles
I have no experience at sea, but I live on a lake, but when the wind blows on the right of my face, I move with the boat and put it blowing in my back, I don't change the angle of the rod, but I change that of the boat.
- Paul Arden
- Site Admin
- Posts: 19583
- Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:20 am
- Location: Belum Rainforest
- Contact:
Re: Saltwater Casting Angles
It's funny, I take quite a few people fly fishing for Snakehead, and many of them can only cast off their dominant shoulder. Obviously when they are here I teach them to make backhanded shots. But we're not going to be able to do this until they have mastered some of the other more pressing challenges and put a decent shot together off their dominant side.
Now there are times when we are following a set of babies and the ideal situation because of the wind would be a reversed cast. But they can't do this, and I never ever let them cast through the boat over my head! There is absolutely no way I'm going to allow it; if the popper fails to clear the water properly on the lift, chances are that it's me who going to be hooked, and then I would have to leave them in the jungle with the tigers...
So I have to set the boat up so that they are casting the fly between themselves and the wind.
It actually surprises me how many experienced fishermen, with quite tidy casts, who can double haul, throw 90' and even hit the bank with a fair degree of accuracy, cannot or have never cast backhanded or off the opposite shoulder. Being comfortable casting off either shoulder doubles the amount of available water you can fish.
Cheers, Paul