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Paul Arden wrote: ↑Sat Apr 25, 2020 10:51 am
If it was your first time I probably just didn’t want you to feel too bad.
Thanks for that
I've been discussing things with Vince today before he hit the gin (I can say things like that now he's no longer here ). I mentioned I have a super-long #5 shooting head that I use for training. The only time I have any trouble aerialising this is in a total flat calm. If there's some wind then it's much easier. Logically I'd assume that getting it back into the breeze would be harder than when there's no air movement, but it's not.
I got some experience in casting indoors, actually about 11 years come to think about it. My god time passes!
Indoors might seem like perfectly stable and even conditions but that´s not the case. Halls have different climate and it can change rather fast and affect the casting quite a bit. Here is a few examples:
When our hall was rebuilt due to a mold problem and we started casting in the new hall we all lost about 10-12% in distance. This turned out to be permanent and evident in all shootout results and personal bests for everyone, no exceptions.
Some of us had personal bests over 40 meters with the 5wt in the old hall, casts made 4-5 years ago or even further back. Nobody has been able to pass 40 meters in the new hall yet and it´s not due to lack of trying. We had our first outdoor session for the year last Sunday and the same guy that´s been hammering it the most did very close to 48 meters on that session so it´s not lack of skill either.
And then there is the ventilation/ac aspect in the new hall… It is very interesting. We start our practice at 10 and we can hear the ventilation turn off at about half past 11. Everyone starts gaining somewhere around 5% every time that happens. You can´t feel any difference but you can see it in how the leader turns over.
It is very difficult to fully straighten a max distance cast in our hall. The line behaves like there is a slight head wind but you can´t feel it. And casting in the other direction does not make a difference either. But when the fans turn off everyone does a bit better.
On one occation we rented this huge inflatable football hall. It´s basically a huge tent with fans creating pressure that keeps it inflated. You can´t feel any wind inside of it at all, or maybe just a slight breeze if you stand close to one of the fans.
We actually had plans of arranging an indoor competition in it. It was big enough even for Salmon distance. But boy we gave that idea up after like 5 minutes, that is by far the worst environment I have ever casted in. Even Ryd Open is easy in comparison and that says a bit.
I have had a few indoor instruction sessions here in Melbourne, but only in basketball stadiums. The venues I have looked at here have not been suitable to distance casting but I would like to have a cast indoors with the distance gear. A few of our Australian Football League clubs have large indoor training venues which would have high ceilings, and I must contact one to see if they will let me attempt to catch a grass fish. It would be an interesting experience.
Not having as much experience as Stefan (well more years, but less days in total indoors ) I complelty agree, and remember a debate on a Swedish forum where people didn't believe there could be big differences depending on the venue and even the outside weather.
We had the Danish championships indoors once (Stefan will remember) and at 27 meters thee where a downdraft from the AC, not really big enough to feel standing underneath, but big enough to spot on the flight of the line...
Cheers
Lasse
Your friendly neighbourhood flyslinger
Flycasting, so simple that instructors need to make it complicated since 1685
On the issue of leader applicability and horses for courses, I use whipper snipper chord for the butt of a leader for one accuracy event. Fast and accurate, so experiment with material as well as section profiles. Your perfect leader may well be your next one.
So maybe those outdoor dead air conditions are the same as indoors! Stefan if you take the ventilator out of the equation, do you ever find that some days indoors are better than others? I'm guessing that temperature plays a big impact.
I've only cast a few times indoors, Rick's barn (hockey rink) in Texas, the FTD show in Denver and the Danish Fly Fair, but there a long carry will touch walls at both ends of the room There was a huge difference between Denver and Texas. Texas was sea level (and humid), Denver is one mile above sea level. Much easier to carry in Denver. In fact if you've practised at sea level, it's going to take some days to adjust.
I have been asked to post the email I sent about my thoughts for leaders for ICSF events on Sexyloops. I do so with the caveat that it reflects what works for me, but if it helps someone save some time in their development of leaders for these events, then it was worth compiling. Distance leaders are different from accuracy leaders and although the three design parameters listed below, still apply. However, depending on the specific objective of your accuracy leader, more segments, thicker butt and segment diameters and section lengths become important factors.
Hi James,
In my opinion, leaders for the ICSF events are mainly concerned with not becoming a drag on the loop so thick butts like would be used for accuracy are not part of my designs.
They need to take advantage of the wind conditions so in general, I want thin and long in a tailwind and shorter and heavier in a head wind or calm conditions.
As you know there are restrictions on the maximum length and they were imposed about when in the 80s there was no maximum length restriction and a Dutch caster registered a cast of 103 metres in the Salmon fly with very strong wind at his back, using a 30 metre leader that had a very long, low diameter tippet.
Any distance leader, and its condition related variants, needs to satisfy 3 objectives,
1. Optimise turnover percentage on delivery in all conditions
2. Minimise drag on the line during casting
3. Keep the fly attached for the event’s duration
The butt predominantly impacts points 1 and 2 and the tippet predominately impacts point 3.
The maximum leader length for the 38 gram event is 3 metres and for the 120 gram event the maximum leader length is 5.2 metres, the minimum length for both events is 1.8 m and I suggest you still vary it for conditions. Develop a standard or basic leader that works for you in average wind conditions and adjust that standard leader for strong wind or no wind conditions.
My standard mono leader for the 38 gram distance is
1.5 m of 0.50 mm
0.50 m of 0.40 mm
0.75 m of 0.30 mm
It is a simple but effective profile. You can include two other sections if you like ie a 0.45 mm section and a 0.35 mm section to smooth the taper but I find this is unnecessary because the high density line turns the 3 piece leader over very well and there are less join knots to tangle the fly on. The key is the butt and the tippet. Leader butt sections thicker than this seem to start to waffle around in the air and retard the loop. You can go lower than 0.50 mm, say .45 mm and that is fine on windy days, and keep the other two sections the same but .50 mm matches the line well.
I would not go lower than 0.30 mm for the tippet, it turns over well and unless you are unlucky, will keep the fly attached. Some casters use a thicker butt 0.55 mm or even 0.60 mm but I find the 0.50 mm is best. Also, some use lighter tippets but the risk of a fly break-off is not worth it in my opinion and .30 mm turns over well. However as I said on Sexyloops, the best thing to do is experiment and see what works for you and what the risks are with tippets given your individual casting outcomes.
For little to no wind , I would shorten it and change it to
1.0 m of 0.50 mm
0.50 m of 0.40 mm
0.75 m of 0.35 mm
For strong wind I would lengthen my standard leader as follows
1.25 m of 0.50 mm
0.50 m of 0.40 mm
1.25 m of 0.30 mm
As with all casting, technique is king and I am probably alone in this but do not use an arm centric stroke whereby the rod translation is a consequence of primarily hand movement forward. It is much better to use a body centric stroke whereby all rod translation is the result of body rotation, not a linear movement forward and backward by the body. The rod hand is pulled forward by body rotation, it does not lead body movement.
My thoughts on leaders for the 120 gram event are similar to 38 gram leaders. They should be because the objectives is the same ie turnover efficiency and any drag impact the leader has on the line.
As with the 38 gram event, shorten your leader for low/no wind or head wind conditions and lengthen the leader for stronger tail wind conditions. For the 120 gram event,
My standard 120 gram leader is
1.5 m of 0.70 mm
1.0 m of 0.60 mm
0.6 m of 0.50 mm
0.40 m of 0.45 mm
1.2 m of 0.40 mm
For little or no wind I might shorten that tippet to 0.70 m and for strong winds I would lengthen the tippet to 1.5 m. It may seem a tad pedantic that the adjustment variant is only 1.0 m but I find that leaders shorter than 4.2 m kick about too much. For casters who are smoother than I am, they could shorten the leader for low/no wind to a total length of 4 m if they wished. The key is to experiment, some may get away with a leader shorter than 4 m so get them to experiment.
As to technique, it is the lower hand that is the key to the delivery block, it should not be pulled back to the chest or under the rod hand armpit during the stroke. To aid flight, only alter the angle through which the line is exiting the tip guide by rotating the lower hand backwards and lowering the rod tip, after release of the line. The time interval between block/release and reducing the rod angle is short and the best exponents make it look like one motion but experiment with it and see what works best for you.
Keep questioning and analysing your technique for both events and use video as often as you can and always think outside the square to see what is best for you.
Hope all that makes sense and hope to catch up next year.
) I complelty agree, and remember a debate on a Swedish forum where people didn't believe there could be big differences depending on the venue and even the outside weather.
