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Accuracy

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Paul Arden
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Re: Accuracy

#31

Post by Paul Arden » Sun Apr 19, 2020 9:06 am

I’m pleased to hear that Graeme. Some associations do put the cart before the horse, but the FFF was never one of them. Just like you can pass missing a target. You can fail and hit them all.

Incidentally I would be very surprised if they allow strip measuring. They never did in the past. As I wrote I would have been impressed with it. If a caster knows how to strip measure his or her way around the course, then I would be very surprised if he/she wasn’t at the upper end of casting skills. But even when I was involved I would still ask to see It done without measuring.

I’m always impressed when the loop of line dangling down from between the rod finger to the reel, is exactly the right length to touch the ground on the final target :D Anyone who has figured this stuff out, has obviously practised it and can teach fishing accuracy - which is what it’s about. Tracking, Trajectory, Arc, consistent loops, straight line layout. They don’t need to know how to hover, they don’t need to know how to sight, they don’t need to know how to strip measure. That’s how it always was in the past.

Many years ago when I was on the MCI test committee I wanted to see hovering techniques included - because I thought and still think MCI should be club level coach. But there was huge resistance to what was called “exam creep” which was where the exam standards were slowly made more difficult and that they should remain the same and they were adamant that competition skills were excluded. Some of that has obviously changed now, at least when I look at the recent MCI tests I think that there are many people who passed previously who would not pass this test without a lot of work.

I do think they should put another level in however and get rid of the “MCI being the end of the journey” stuff that they wrote in the past. Particularly if they are not going to include comp techniques and the full single handed Spey casting repertoire in the MCI exam it does leave considerable scope for a higher level. And it would give those who are interested, a new goal to work towards.

Cheers, Paul
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Paul Arden
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Re: Accuracy

#32

Post by Paul Arden » Sun Apr 19, 2020 12:26 pm

Interesting. From Lasse -
No strip measuring on the ground. Knowing your strip lengths while casting is another story, perfectly fine with that!
There you go. Let me ask a few others.

Cheers, Paul
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Re: Accuracy

#33

Post by Paul Arden » Sun Apr 19, 2020 6:13 pm

Also asked Bruce -
Hey Paul,
Yes, it's been discussed. Pretty hard to prevent though and the general consensus was that it wasn't a big problem. Not as easy to do as it would seem. If it becomes an issue it will have to be addressed I suppose.
B
It’s much easier to strip in than out of course. But you could actually measure in your hands first and then feed into the false casting. But to be honest it’s probably more effort than it’s worth. But I would certainly strip measure between targets 2 and 1 in the MCI. That’s a given.

Cheers, Paul
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Graeme H
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Re: Accuracy

#34

Post by Graeme H » Sun Apr 19, 2020 10:35 pm

The easiest way to address it is to randomise the distances in the exam. While the current task structure is in place, the obvious way to complete the task is to measure.

As a candidate, my aim is to pass the exam and so I'll use the best method for that task. I NEVER fish in the way the exam is structured. In fact, the way I cast to a fish is expressly forbidden by the exam structure. The fish I chase don't afford me the luxury of multiple false casts - get the fly in the zone in one cast or go home.

Cheers,
Graeme
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Carol
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Re: Accuracy

#35

Post by Carol » Wed Apr 29, 2020 12:29 am

Paul Arden wrote:
Sun Apr 19, 2020 6:13 pm
It’s much easier to strip in than out of course. But you could actually measure in your hands first and then feed into the false casting. But to be honest it’s probably more effort than it’s worth. But I would certainly strip measure between targets 2 and 1 in the MCI. That’s a given.
I've been working on the feed-measure between targets 3 and 4, and 4 and 5. My line hand starts about where my rod hand is, then I slide it down the line about a foot toward my waist on the forward cast then feed it out on the back cast. Although I'm not perfect at it, it's easier than I thought and more helpful to me than randomly feeding out line. Is that about how you do it?? One would think that would be a respected skill on any test. :pirate:

Here's a problem I sometimes have on back casts where the line's path of travel (ergo tip path) has a steep trajectory during the casting stroke: After the line unrolls on the forward cast and is moving into the back cast, it "rounds the corner," almost curling under before it starts its steep path into the back cast. As line travels in that straight steep path and the leader is passing the tip of the rod, the fluff-fly hits the rod near the tip-top, sometimes even hitting the tip-top itself. Sometimes the fly breaks off. Thankfully the tip top hasn't broken off. One of these days I'll get a GoPro with a remote control and video these Joe Schmackapop casts so I can analyze them. Until then, I could use your thoughts.
Carol
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Paul Arden
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Re: Accuracy

#36

Post by Paul Arden » Wed Apr 29, 2020 6:42 am

Hi Carol,

If you are working between targets 3 and 4 and 4 and 5, then I am surprised. How many targets do you have out there?!

Here is something to try. I often find that my accuracy is better without false casting. Just to pickup, cast, shoot, cast, shoot, deliver. I think this is because I’ve spent all my life fishing like this, and the technique of hovering is not something I would ever do while fishing. If it’s the same for you, and you are more accurate without hovering, then I think we overthink these things :)

The line hitting the rod tip is a sign that your tracking is excellent! Basically the problem can be that you are starting with a line that’s not straight but has a belly/U-shape. If that’s the case then you want to work on having that line hang straight, which is a timing or force issue. You want to throw a loop out there that hangs/hovers.

There are actually a couple of other ways the line can clip the rod, one is trying to throw a steep backcast breaking the 180. The other is when the rod tip path rises above the line path at the beginning of the stroke, sending a wave down the fly leg. And sometimes it’s a combination of all three :laugh:

Any question like this you always need to ask what is the flyline and leader you are using?

It’s not uncommon to see this happen in the World Championships. So you are in good company! If it happens everyone once in a while then I’m not overly concerned. If it’s happening regularly, then I would focus in on the transition between forward and backcasts (ie the hover/hang time).

Cheers, Paul
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Carol
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Re: Accuracy

#37

Post by Carol » Wed Apr 29, 2020 6:11 pm

Paul Arden wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 6:42 am
If you are working between targets 3 and 4 and 4 and 5, then I am surprised. How many targets do you have out there?!

There are actually a couple of other ways the line can clip the rod, one is trying to throw a steep backcast breaking the 180. The other is when the rod tip path rises above the line path at the beginning of the stroke, sending a wave down the fly leg. And sometimes it’s a combination of all three :laugh:

Any question like this you always need to ask what is the flyline and leader you are using?
I overcounted the targets. Seems I can't count to 5. :whistle: :blush:

As for the other ways to clip the rod, I'm not able to picture them, but maybe when I practice today I'll be able to ascertain if I'm doing one or all three.

Flyline is Rio Gold Tournament WF6F. Leader is a 0x Rio Powerflex 7-1/2'; Rod is a Scott Radian 6 wt. JW thinks the Ballistic Pro Performance is a better line for candidates, while the head on the Rio Trournament is nearly 20 feet longer. That's a whole other topic that is probably on the Board somewhere.

It likely is more about technique than gear. Again, I'll pay more attention to the technique when I practice today. For me, it's really easy on the short casts to get that straight line leader. Once I get close to 40 feet, it's dicier for me to keep a good tight loop (and not tail) and pay attention to the target: I keep watching the loop to see where it's going wrong, and that seems to be more about strength and appropriate application of force. I'll work on it today.
Carol
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Re: Accuracy

#38

Post by Paul Arden » Thu Apr 30, 2020 7:11 am

Hi Carol
present the fly to targets at 20, 30 and 45 feet
There are only three targets!

The Comp Gold I like, I actually used that line for my AAPGAI Masters test. How are you finding the distance with that line?

I know that it sounds easier using a 7'6 leader but actually you are making almost everything harder. Personally I would use a 9' leader at a minimum (and possibly add a couple of feet of tippet). Using a 7'6 leader means that you have to carry more flyline in every exercise (distances are measured to the fly). I think you'll also get a better accuracy hang with a 9' leader.

I found the Ballistic Pro a little short in the head for my tastes; it will certainly make the test easier for those struggling with the distance.
The candidate shall begin this task with the line extended to 55 feet (16.7m) and then strip in the line until only 4 to 5 feet of fly line is beyond the rod tip.
Two things: once you've stripped to 4-5 ft of flyline outside the tip, the fly, if it's not actually in the first ring, will at least be easily visually strip measured.
The second thing is to put the line out to 55' and when you strip back past the third ring have a look to see how much line is hanging between your line hand and the ground. This will give you an approximate distance gauge, to know when you have about the right amount of line outside the rod tip for target 3.

Cheers, Paul
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Carol
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Re: Accuracy

#39

Post by Carol » Fri May 01, 2020 5:04 pm

Paul Arden wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 7:11 am

The Comp Gold I like, I actually used that line for my AAPGAI Masters test. How are you finding the distance with that line?
I can reach 75' with it without much practicing to do it. It just takes more effort with the entire body involved. Besides, my husband just got me a new one as a gift, so I'm kind-of stuck for now. Distance, as you know, is the last casting task and I've been pretty much focusing on one task at a time, working more on the ones I figure I'll have the most trouble with, like counting targets. :p
Paul Arden wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 7:11 am
Two things: once you've stripped to 4-5 ft of flyline outside the tip, the fly, if it's not actually in the first ring, will at least be easily visually strip measured.

The second thing is to put the line out to 55' and when you strip back past the third ring have a look to see how much line is hanging between your line hand and the ground. This will give you an approximate distance gauge, to know when you have about the right amount of line outside the rod tip for target 3.
Brilliant! Thank you.

Cheers, Paul
Carol
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Re: Accuracy

#40

Post by Paul Arden » Sat May 02, 2020 6:52 am

If you are hitting the distance then perfect. Many struggle to reach the distance with a long belly line. But if you can use a long belly line then I think this is perfect. The CCI test was originally written with 5-7WT lines of DT and WF profile in mind. Optimising lines should not be necessary.

Do play with that leader length! When I first became an instructor the recommended leader length for a beginner was 1.5 times the length of the rod - I still think this is a good rule of thumb. Of course when fishing we might use shorter leaders, but far more likely longer leaders, particularly when fishing 2 or 3 flies. I've found a lot of beginner tailing loop issues can be solved with a longer and properly tapered leader.

I went through the MCI test last year with a couple of friends here who were using 7'6 leaders thinking that the minimum length was an advantage. However since all the length measurements are measured from caster's feet to fly using a longer leader means less flyline outside the rod tip and is in fact an advantage, particularly for this test where the carry lengths are a little longer. But even for the CCI test, a 7'6 leader is very short. Absolute minimum length I would use would be 9'. When teaching I usually use 1.5x length of the rod.

Something I would recommend would be to make up a competition accuracy leader (there is a thread recently with some of these). These leaders you can have confidence in, because you'll know that they have been tied so that they can hover. You have plenty of time to play with this - I would not recommend this as a last minute change! - but the months ahead will give you time to experiment. What you want is for the leader to unroll and for the fly to just hang there for half a second or so, instead of tucking, it hangs... hangs... hangs. So if you can put together a leader that does this, it should make the accuracy easier and is good for the rest of the test.

Cheers, Paul
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