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Adjusting backcast target for off vertical tracking?

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George C
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Adjusting backcast target for off vertical tracking?

#1

Post by George C »

Pardon me if this is heresy but here goes:

If one's casting plane is not 100% vertical then isn't it a mistake to use a backcast target directly behind you (180 degrees from the forward target)?
Indeed, the more off vertical one's casting plane is then shouldn't the backcast target be significantly less than 180 degrees.....and this "correction" be magnified as the cast distance shortens?

For example, here is a diagram of a birds eye view of a 100' cast (60' carry) assuming the casting plane is oriented 90 degress from vertical (and the length from the spine to the rod tip is 10').......OK I should have made it less to account for rod bend but the concept is the same.
If A is the front target, B is the usual recommended 180 degree backcast target, C is the top of the casters spine,.......then isn't D is where the actual target should be for a straight line path to target A ??????

I understand and accept that the "best" casting plane for both accuracy and distance is vertical..........but in the real world (for a whole slew of reasons, some intentional and some not) I find myself casting with a rod well off vertical.......and get the sense that when I force my natural backcast further around towards a target directly behind me loop size, forward tracking, and distance all suffer.

So is it a mistake to use a target directly behind me when I don't use a vertical casting plane???

Thanks
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Bernd Ziesche
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Re: Adjusting backcast target for off vertical tracking?

#2

Post by Bernd Ziesche »

Hello George,
I recommend to keep your rod in one plane only. The target for your fc and bc should be on one straight line, thus opposite directions. The key is in where to stop your rod. When casting sideways I prefer to stop sideways (position 2 in the sketch)! Most casters bring their rod back in the vertical plane (position 1 in the sketch).
This is also what I do on a dynamic roll cast (jump roll). Otherwise you easily may run into quite some trouble, especially on longer lines.
Regards
Bernd
P.s.: It was a quick sketch, don't take too much into detail. ;)
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Mangrove Cuckoo
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Re: Adjusting backcast target for off vertical tracking?

#3

Post by Mangrove Cuckoo »

George,

180 degrees means just that... target and bc in a straight line.

Vertical (loop) plane means fly leg directly over rod leg... the caster's spine has nothing to do with it..

So I think your suspicion is correct... it is your association of vertical being referenced to the caster that needs rethinking.

Rod plane and loop plane are separate.

Try casting with a horizontal rod plane.while producing a vertical loop plane. Then just for kicks... swap which leg is on top. Not only will all this become clear, but you will have learned a killer way to present a fly below Snell's angle.
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John Waters
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Re: Adjusting backcast target for off vertical tracking?

#4

Post by John Waters »

Hi George,

I agree with Bernd and Mangrove about the 180 degree alignment. For long casts I want that same alignment but my line path rotates clockwise slightly.

John
George C
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Re: Adjusting backcast target for off vertical tracking?

#5

Post by George C »

Thanks Bernd
I understand the issue with pulling the rod off the tracking line at the end of a cast and it is certainly a bad habit I struggle with....although interestingly less so when the rod is cast in a horizontal plane because of its immediately evident effect on accuracy.
My question is somewhat different.

Lets say I stretch a tape measure 200 ft, put a cone at each end of it, then stand in the middle with my casting shoulder directly above the tape. My backcast target for a cast made with the rod perpendicular to the ground (i.e., in a vertical plane) will be on that tape directly behind me or 180 degrees from the target with the point on the tape below my shoulder being the center of an angle (not the casting arc) lets call it the "tracking angle" when viewed from above.

If standing in the same position and aiming at the same forward target I now start casting with the rod held parallel to the ground throughout the casting stroke (i.e., in a horizontal plane), when I stop my backcast and let it drop it falls straight but well to the casting side of the tape behind me, perhaps at a 20 degree angle from the tape or a 160 degree angle from the front target with my shoulder as the center of that angle when viewed from above. This looks like BAD TRACKING. But if I walk to the end of the flyline and sight down it towards the forward target it is aimed straight at it. If I make the same cast with the rod in a plane 45 degrees from vertical or horizontal then the line will land 10 degrees off the tape but still pointed at the front target when sighted from the end of the fly line.

In each case the cast is aligned 180 degrees away from the front target, but 0-10-20 degrees away from the back target. As the casting plane moves away from vertical shouldn't the correct place to aim one's backcast in order to maintain a straight tracking line shift? And the shorter the cast (or closer to horizontal the casting plane) the more it moves. If when using a non-vertical casting plane one does not shift the backcast target accordingly then don't you either end up casting parallel to the original target line and not hitting either the original targets, or end up having to open up the casting arc more than ideal to force the line to track over an angle of greater than 180 degrees (which adds all sorts of extra rotational contortion)? For months I've been trying to do the latter :sick: . I'm beginning to believe that is a mistake. Am I wrong????? If not, then how do I go about picking the correct backcast target....or does picking one only work for a vertical casting plane?

I would LOVE to see a drone video of one of you guys casting along a playing field sideline towards a target 100ft in front of you with the rod at 0, 40, and 90 degrees from vertical. Anyone done this?
George C
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Re: Adjusting backcast target for off vertical tracking?

#6

Post by George C »

Beh.....too late to edit the above. Just to be clear I understand the height of the actual backcast target is above the tape (rather than on it) with the vertical casting plane and I think lower (as well as off to the casting side) with a horizontal casting plane.
John Waters
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Re: Adjusting backcast target for off vertical tracking?

#7

Post by John Waters »

Hi George,

If you cast a fixed length of line in the vertical plane, the line path will be over your tape for both the back and forward casts. Keeping the same length of line in the air and not changing the casting arc as you move the rod plane to the horizontal must deliver a line path as you have experienced if your front target has not changed. It is not an issue because as you have said, from a different perspective the line path is still 180 degrees. Don't dome or open the rod tip arc just to point the rod tip at the same back target as you would on a vertical cast. The back target must move away from the original tape position (in your frame of reference that movement is anticlockwise) to maintain an effective and efficient loop.

John
Mangrove Cuckoo
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Re: Adjusting backcast target for off vertical tracking?

#8

Post by Mangrove Cuckoo »

"As the casting plane moves away from vertical shouldn't the correct place to aim one's backcast in order to maintain a straight tracking line shift?"

Yes.

As your casting plane moves from vertical, your rod tip moves away from that tape you are standing over (aka, the line of sight).

180 degrees is set by the target and your rod tip, not you.
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Paul Arden
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Re: Adjusting backcast target for off vertical tracking?

#9

Post by Paul Arden »

Yes I agree George. Basically the trajectory adjustments we make to the vertical rod plane become backcast target angle adjustments in the horizontal plane.

Trying to take the line from directly in front and hit a target directly behind, by going right around the body, will open the loop. And actually won’t work with a long carry.

It’s principally for this reason (well one of the reasons) that both accuracy and distance are best accomplished with a vertical plane whenever possible. Of course fishing tends to mess with our plans :)

So I agree and it’s an excellent point which I can’t remember being discussed.

Cheers, Paul
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George C
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Re: Adjusting backcast target for off vertical tracking?

#10

Post by George C »

Thanks all, this is helpful.
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