Rod stiffness advice.

[barrysthlm]

Hello!

During one of my late night casting practice sessions a drunk guy came past and suggested that I was at the limits of my rod (Sage X 590-4) because it was too flexed, and there wasn’t anything more to take out. I didn’t really take this seriously at the time - my instructor can throw 10m more than me without even trying with the same rod- but now I’m starting to wonder.

Last week I got my old rod back from Sage, which took a very long time because of corona restrictions apparently, it’s an Accel #6. I put the MED #5 on it and was surprised to find my loops tighter, accuracy better, and distance more or less the same with only a few minutes of testing. When I sent my Accel off on its journey last May I found it too stiff and had intended to sell it when it came back. I think that my timing has become so much better that I need less ‘signal’ from the rod and the stiffness doesn’t hamper me as much.

The I went out for my first day’s fishing yesterday after the ice has lifted. Casting my F/I line with the X now feels very wibbly over 80 feet and it has started annoying me.

I also noticed on the forum that many of you who can cast good distances are using heavier rods, I’ve so far always matched rod to line by what it said on the box.

My question is, if I start to experiment with stiffer rods, will I see more distance, and if I invest in a slightly stiffer rod today, will I be back at the tackle shop in 6 months looking for an even stiffer one? What’s the cheapest way to navigate this?

/Barry

[Lasse Karlsson]

Cheapest way is to stick with what you have, and revisit when you are throwing as far as your instructor!

A test made some years ago, your milage may differ....

Cheers
Lasse

[Lasse Karlsson]

Second part to the test.

Cheers
Lasse

[nicholasfmoore]

Hi Barry,

The X series seems to be incredibly soft in the butt section, quite a difference to what they normally do. I've tried the 590-4 (and others with MED's) and they all felt the same through the series. I didn't like the feel of a long carry with these, so i see where you are coming from. Sage Igniter is a superior fishing rod imo. 30' difference sounds more like tracking differences

How far are you throwing now? Are you casting down a tape measure? You could see which rod goes furthest for you by casting 10 times with each rod (same line) and work out your average, i did that with mine with a ballistic #5. My stiffest rod at the time (Sage Igniter 690-4) went a few feet further than my softest #6, 125' average with this.

The really stiff rods (#10 for example) don't give you that much more distance, it's only a good few feet, but you've got to practice with it. My first few casts were quite bad with the HT10, but now i'm high 120's. You should still be able to hit 120' with a 'conventional' #5 rod.

if I start to experiment with stiffer rods, will I see more distance

Great question, i'd say only if you practice with it I haven't cast the Accel, but it sounds like you are more comfortable with this.

What’s the cheapest way to navigate this?

Stick with the Accel

All the best!

[Paul Arden]

Hi Barry,

This Is a good question. Here is my take on it. The difference between casting a “5WT” rod and a “10WT” rod with the 5MED line in competition distance is about 2m when casting around the 40m mark. This difference is very significant in championship casting, it’s also debatable too, but the general consensus is that a 10WT rod stiffness is optimal for 5WT distance. But it’s terrible to Roll Cast

I agree with Nick that the X is soft in the butt. I actually find it difficult not to tail on a long carry. But that’s more of an action thing than a stiffness thing. And unusual for rods. Sage normally design rods completely the other way with butts that “feel” rigid – and I can’t think of another manufacturer who produces a rod like the X. Some of the Hardy rods maybe?

Personally I would never recommend a 5 distance rod that doesn’t have another use. Do you have an 8WT rod in your quiver that you can play with?

Cheers, Paul

[nicholasfmoore]

Hi Paul,

I can’t think of another manufacturer who produces a rod like the X. Some of the Hardy rods maybe?

Some Hardy and Greys rods are similar

All the best

[barrysthlm]

Thanks everyone!

Lasse: I don’t think I’ll ever throw as far as my instructor, but it’s something to aim for.

Nick: I’m throwing about 98’ with MED, around 110’ with the shorter heads. I’ve been focusing on carry and accuracy lately, so after a few months of that it should be much further

I’ll do I as you suggest as throw both against the tape a good few times.

Paul: What I really liked about the X was the lightness of it, it is more suited to a whole day’s fishing than the Accel, and I can roll cast on grass with it. The problem is I feel a loss of control at longer distances, even if it comes back and the cast goes well, I feel like I lose touch with the rig on my final back cast and for a few milliseconds I’m just holding a cork butt and I have to wait for the rod to settle down, I can’t start the forward cast when my eye tells me to because I don’t know what shape the rod is in and there can be tails. That feels weird. I could also just get a lighter F/I line I guess.

I have a 7WT, but it’s a Hardy and I haven’t used it much lately. I have a lesson on the 10th so I can maybe get to play with some different rods that day.

Regards

Barry

[Paul Arden]

That’s exactly the same for me Barry. I threw one in Switzerland when they first came out. I got to about an 80’ carry and tried to go Stopless and it just bent in a way that I did not expect. Very difficult to avoid tails and it doesn’t like to be hit. I don’t think going to a lighter line would help and I’m sure that making the movements without a line will result in the same.

It’s fine for fishing, I just wouldn’t use it for distance!

Cheers, Paul

[barrysthlm]

Whoops. I just went for some woolly buggers...

I haven’t had a chance to test it out on the pitch yet, but it makes a real difference to casting distance on the water.

[barrysthlm]

Just to update, my lovely new Igniter is currently is Washington getting repaired. Walking through forests in the dark is not really a good idea with expensive rods.

The Igniter made a huge difference to my distance casting - on the water I constantly underestimated what I could do with it and have hit a lot of trees on the bank. I don’t lose contact in the same way with it.

My instructors advice was to learn to handle all sizes and shapes of rods, so I am training with different rods at different times. The stiffer rod tends to give more shockwaves, so I’m working on ironing that out. Right now all I’m doing is accuracy and off shoulder training, so I haven’t measured distance for ages.

If I knew then what I knew now, I would have went for an Igniter as my #5. The X is still great as a dry fly rod, past 60 feet I can’t see a midge anyway.