Loading (again) in Roll CASTING/Spey CASTING

[Lasse Karlsson]

Hi Torsten

As I said, I demo using similar length rods these days, a 9 feet glasfiber thing and a 9 feet carbon thing, glassfiber IP around 110, carbon around 200. Same line on both, same outcome as in the clip. Just haven't gotten around to film it, kinda tired of people not just trying it for themselves and saying all kinds of crap instead
When I did the clip 9 years ago, I was told that lengthening the line and hauling would show a bigger difference (apart from those who said it was photoshopped, that one rod just followed the other, which one depended on which one one liked the most, that I could dampen one rod and not the other with my hand etc...)

So I did a longer line and hauled:



Rods don't bend so much during casting as most people think, perspective has a tendency to cheat the eye...

Will put it on the todo list of clips next time I have time to tape something

Cheers
Lasse

[Lasse Karlsson]

The magic of perspective, same bend, different angle towards the camera...

Cheers
Lasse

[Paul Arden]

A softer rod bends more for the same force. It can’t be otherwise. You might have situations with very similar bend, Lasse, which is interesting in itself but if they all bent the same CCS would give the same numbers.

What I do find interesting is that bend is remarkably similar with line vs without line. However between different Rod stiffnesses you will see different deflections.

Incidentally I thinks it’s for the same reason that softer rods are usually preferred for Speys as they are for Accuracy comps. But in the accuracy case the longer tip path allows for easier straight tracking.

Cheers, Paul

[Paul Arden]

The magic of perspective, same bend, different angle towards the camera...

It’s not the same bend. You can see the butt angle is different and the position of the tips are different. But I do agree perspective makes a huge difference.

Cheers, Paul

[Torsten]

Hi Lasse,

Just haven't gotten around to film it, kinda tired of people not just trying it for themselves and saying all kinds of crap instead

Of course, maybe the differences are indeed exaggerated.

Older rods have often a smaller AA, that means a stiffer tip. The CCS uses only one point of the deflection curve @ 1/3 rod length load. You need to measure the stiffness also for smaller deflections. (Theo Matschewsky measures @ 3,75° and 15° rod deflection for instance,

To eliminate the material dependency I'd use two rods of the same series / same material / same AA - like a 5wt. and a 10wt. Maybe Paul could compare his 10wt. HT to a 5wt.

Rods don't bend so much during casting as most people think, perspective has a tendency to cheat the eye...

I'm guessing this depends on the particular cast, I've seen photos of a huge bend from competition spey rods. Also I was surprised how big the bend was for T38 rods.

Torsten.

[Michal Duzynski]

Awesome, and clear answers.
Thank you guys

[Lasse Karlsson]

The magic of perspective, same bend, different angle towards the camera...

It’s not the same bend. You can see the butt angle is different and the position of the tips are different. But I do agree perspective makes a huge difference.

Cheers, Paul

Butt angle and tip positions are similar, that you persieve them different is due to perspective, I did not move anything. Check the cues from the background

Cheers
Lasse

[Graeme H]

Lasse,

Where did all the fly line hanging off your left arm in the lower picture go in the upper picture? And why is your face in sunlight in one and shaded in the other?

Cheers,
Graeme

[Merlin]

The deflection of a rod depends on the size of the casting arc and on the loaded frequency (again) of the rod. If you get similar deflections for rods of different stiffness in same conditions (Lasse's video), it is because they have a similar loaded frequency with the load in use.

You can expect that a stiff/fast rod has a higher loaded frequency than a slow/soft one for a given load, and would then exhibit less deflection, but it is not a universal rule, especially if the rods are made of different material. Butt action soft rods can have a relatively high loaded frequency.

You can understand why, when comparing rods, you need to know their unloaded speed and their equivalent mass, which dictate their loaded frequency.

Merlin

[Michal Duzynski]

Hi guys
I just re red everything slowly.

@Nick- I'm not sure about the first cast- I would stick to it as a static roll cast, because while repositioning the line it doesn't leave the surface. In a current it might be slightly faster movement. Second cast " jump Roll " line bounce/jump off the surface and then forward cast.

Anyway back to my original question.
Do I understand it correctly ( if I want to explain it to someone in simple way) .
All the roll casting is used( by the book) where there is limited space behind our back, so softer rod, or more mass under the tip( D-loop) will allow us to perform nice/tight loop cast with little D-loop, instead faster rod with the same small D-loop- right?
For the same cast
-faster rod with regular WF line will require more line in the D-loop and at the same time creating possibilities of snagging the ground, or branches behind?
- faster rod with TT/spey line will require smaller D-loop/less space, less chances of snagging, more pleasant cast?
- and tell me again please what would be a description of benefits with softer rod and regular WF line???

I want to explain something on polish forum, but I don't want it to sound too complicated, or even confuse myself

Cheers
Mike