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Belgian / Gebetsroither / Continuous Tenion

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Carol
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Belgian / Gebetsroither / Continuous Tenion

#1

Post by Carol »

I can't seem to find good online sources for how to properly perform a Belgian cast. I don't like my "loop" when I do it, especially if it's a sidearm back cast. Depending upon the wind direction, the forward loop opens up and looks more like a backward "L" than a sideways "U." Also, it often result in an unintended positive curve cast (a golf hook). There are videos of people performing it, but AFAIK there are no nuts and bolts instruction or troubleshooting. So here is my question: How do you teach it, i.e. the mechanics including setup, rod angles, when to pull it into the overhead position, type of stroke, force application, using a haul with it, etc.

Thanks, everyone. I continue to learn from you all and appreciate it.
Carol
Because it's painful getting flies out of spruce trees.
Dirk le Roux
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Re: Belgian / Gebetsroither / Continuous Tenion

#2

Post by Dirk le Roux »

Hi Carol

Though not limited to Belgian /Gebetsroither, these are quite thorough discussions:

https://youtu.be/nvfb5mWYeJo

,

https://youtu.be/oa-1-W7rcgs

and

https://youtu.be/nlyji5uAluM

All the best,
Dirk
Morsie
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Re: Belgian / Gebetsroither / Continuous Tenion

#3

Post by Morsie »

Carol because we move between planes it's a challenge to keep the fc aligned and you'll often get that "swinging loop", just like any tracking error or 180 error. You cannot afford to be too wristy on this cast. Try and go straighter back, don't sweep round too much as you go back - bend the rod tip back down the line as you accelerate if that makes sense.

I think the lift at the start of the cast is critical (as in so many casts) because to get that backcast travelling below the rod tip we need to get the tip up to get the line clear of the water (grass) or we need too much effort to accelerate it. From the top of the lift the path of the rod tip needs to be accelerating up a flat incline path or we run the risk of hitting the water (grass) on the bc - no dip at all and no downward incline.

My goal is to have the fly "kick" upwards so it comes forward well clear of the head, so I lift high into a "circle up" motion. I teach this as a short line cast initially so we can slow right down as we reach the top of the "circle up", but don't stop, maintain the tension as the rod moves into the vertical. With a really bad right (casting) shoulder wind you can bring the rod tip forward over the other shoulder.

Prescott Smith's Taming the Wind vid does a good job of explaining the accelerations - this done with a West Indian accent, "you go fast down de straits and then slow down round de corners".

Great cast with shooting heads.
Make your explanations as simple as possible, but no simpler. A Einstein.
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Carol
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Re: Belgian / Gebetsroither / Continuous Tenion

#4

Post by Carol »

First of all, you do a good accent. :D
Second, thank you both for the direction, with details about the rod tip path and links to good videos. Like other casts, it probably takes a lot of practice, and trying different things, in order to perfect it. I'll keep working on it. A couple of years ago, we had a day out with Kelly Galloup's right-hand man, John McClure. We did the Belgian all day, and I did it poorly all day. Finally, I'm actually trying to learn to do it correctly from actual casting instructors.
Carol
Because it's painful getting flies out of spruce trees.
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Paul Arden
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Re: Belgian / Gebetsroither / Continuous Tenion

#5

Post by Paul Arden »

It also doesn’t help that they are either different or the same thing. Gebetsroither for me is a circular cast, unter die tip, over die tip. Belgian, probably wrongly, is a side backcast and a vertical overhead cast. Partly because of the way it’s been taught, misunderstood and so on.

Having said that changing planes between strokes is very useful and the separation of loop planes is also a useful skill. It can be seen as a distinct style. But it doesn’t have to be. It’s very useful for changing direction, particularly when taking shots off the front of the boat. For example. It’s also necessary on your first backcast with a strong tail wind.

The “continuous tension” part IMO is overrated. And misleading, particularly when it was called “constant tension”.

What I would say is that you want to be able to cast in all planes and change between all planes. The better you get at this the more options you have when you have to take a shot without thinking about it.

I’ve just spent three days taking shots at Ladyfish. There was a lot of different casts involved. :D

Cheers, Paul
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Carol
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Re: Belgian / Gebetsroither / Continuous Tenion

#6

Post by Carol »

Good German accent, Paul. :D
It's helpful to know that there is a plane distinction between the Geb and the Belgian, and that "continuous/constant tension" is somewhat of a misnomer. I've always heard the names being used interchangeably. It's also good to know that the Belgian is just plain (or plane?) challenging and requires practice, but can be well worth it.
I'm re-reading through Pete's post, to picture exactly what he's talking about. The steady upward trajectory on the back cast with a partial circle at the top is what I'm hearing, but I'm not clear on how to get the fly to "kick." Is it as simple as it sounds: raise the rod tip high and into a circular motion?
Carol
Because it's painful getting flies out of spruce trees.
Morsie
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Re: Belgian / Gebetsroither / Continuous Tenion

#7

Post by Morsie »

Carol if the fly leg is UNDER the rod leg, is climbing, and you accelerate through the first of the "circle up", then slow down as you reach the top it will kick up. Clearly there is a timing to this. I use this cast a great deal for heavy flies so this also helps with the kick up as they have that momentum going around the corner. I use what I would call a "generous" circle up motion and take my hand high as its slowing. I think of it as being very similar to the circle up motion in a Spey cast. It's a good method for teaching a switch cast, just let that fly leg touch and you have an anchor. I'm not clear on all the names and distinctions either, I just have it and teach it as a fishing cast. I find that like in a switch cast the instinct to go straight back (or even worse to dip) needs to be overcome. Robert Gillespie's description of the "climbing curve" suits it perfectly, just don't touch the water with the fly leg - its a hockey stick curve, or a J, and the steep round accelerating climb at the back will kick that fly up.
Make your explanations as simple as possible, but no simpler. A Einstein.
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Paul Arden
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Re: Belgian / Gebetsroither / Continuous Tenion

#8

Post by Paul Arden »

Hi Carol,

Basically it partly inverts the loop and then at loop straight the excess energy pops the fly upwards.

I mention it in the pendulum cast video https://www.sexyloops.com/flycast/pendulum-cast/

You can also use it on the forward cast to land heavy flies more gently.

The Belgian Cast has an interesting history. As I understand it, the reason it became known as such was because a caster from Belgium was in the States and won a competition using the Gebetsroither style (which is a very common default style in Germany, Austria and apparently Belgium). Anyway this is why they are the same cast.. However since it was subsequently done differently and taught as two straight planes instead of oval, it can, or could, be considered two different techniques. Make of that what you will :)

The issue I have with it, as Morsie points out, is that it is difficult to track perfectly straight because when you cast off to the side it puts the fly line slightly off shoulder, maybe sometimes as much as a rod length, which is not perfectly aligned to a vertical rod plane. Furthermore any kick with a heavy fly off a side cast will pop the fly in behind you. Which is one reason why the upwards flick is useful. It can also give you a little more time.

Good luck!

Cheers, Paul
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Paul Arden
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Re: Belgian / Gebetsroither / Continuous Tenion

#9

Post by Paul Arden »

Cross-posted. As Morsie perfectly describes :D
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Morsie
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Re: Belgian / Gebetsroither / Continuous Tenion

#10

Post by Morsie »

William van der Vorst gave us a history lesson on this cast a few years ago and as I recall it goes something like this. It was Charles Ritz who first observed it being used by Hans Goebestroiter at a lodge on the river Traun in Austria, and as a very keen student of fly casting he noted it as being something different. Goebestroiter was the river keeper and gillie and was using this technique to dry the silk fly lines before dressing them. But it was his fundamental fishing casting stroke anyway. Ritz showed it to Belgian champion caster Albert Goddard who took it to the US when the world championships were on, and demonstrated it to the yanks. Hence its name.
Make your explanations as simple as possible, but no simpler. A Einstein.
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