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Head at the rod tip increasing counterflex?

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Lasse Karlsson
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Re: Head at the rod tip increasing counterflex?

#21

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:08 pm



Two echo E3 5 weight rods, on the green a MED5 line, on the white, a DT9 line. Same amount of line out of both, about 11 meters plus leader. Need to redo in better light, sunset isn't the best, and I do have that blue building nearby. Never the less, some interesting things to see 🙂

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Lasse
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Re: Head at the rod tip increasing counterflex?

#22

Post by Mangrove Cuckoo » Fri Jun 18, 2021 3:06 am

So... I have a question that I think is somewhat pertinent to this discussion...

It is summer "bang the mangroves" time here in South Florida. It is essentially PUALD repetition with an 8wt and a popper at around 50- 60 feet. The fly is retrieved maybe 10 - 15 feet. The goal is accuracy with the minimum of false casts, tight loops, and an easy shoot. Casting efficiency is paramount because it is hot as blazes and if I try to fish this way for any duration I get hand cramps if I am working too hard.

I have been using a relatively long belly & taper WF line because I generally prefer them for most fishing, but I am not thrilled with the loop and the shoot lately. I am wondering if having the rear taper in the rod tip is causing my loops to be larger than what I want, and if the rear taper in the guides is hurting the shoot.

So, maybe... would switching to a short belly and an abrupt taper to the running line be a better option for a narrower loop and easier shoot?
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Re: Head at the rod tip increasing counterflex?

#23

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Fri Jun 18, 2021 4:17 am

For that application, yes.

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Lasse
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Re: Head at the rod tip increasing counterflex?

#24

Post by Paul Arden » Fri Jun 18, 2021 5:43 am

For me not, I do similar fishing here at certain times of the year – “hitting the banks” when the water level is rising. The longer head allows me to pick up from longer and very accurately deliver with control over the delivery. (It’s not a fast shoot but a controlled shoot). I’m quite sure there are times when you want to bend the line too. Trying to do all that with a short head would be nuts. Your arm would drop off from all the stripping for one thing.

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Re: Head at the rod tip increasing counterflex?

#25

Post by Paul Arden » Fri Jun 18, 2021 7:12 am

Ok thanks Gordy. Going through Daniel’s paper properly now, will hopefully be a little less ignorant by nightfall. :pirate:

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Re: Head at the rod tip increasing counterflex?

#26

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Fri Jun 18, 2021 7:37 am

Wonder when my arm will fall of 🤣 just one or both?
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Re: Head at the rod tip increasing counterflex?

#27

Post by Paul Arden » Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:33 am

So there are two main issues Lasse. I do a similar style of fishing. Using the thruster to run the banks, cast the fly into the edge, within a few inches from the bank, I fish the first few strips and then if there is nothing chasing/eating I slip lift and recast putting the fly 2m further down the bank.

If my head is short I need to strip to the head. And obviously that’s a waste of time/life. But also it’s far more difficult to shoot to hit the edge than to slip to hit the edge. One of the most enjoyable (and effective) things about this sort of fishing is poking the fly in and around structure, making mends and so on. That’s all part of the game - in fact it’s because I enjoy this so much that I do it. Here is catches smaller Snakehead and Jungle Perch.

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Re: Head at the rod tip increasing counterflex?

#28

Post by Mangrove Cuckoo » Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:30 pm

Paul,

Out of curiosity, what line are you using?

The line I am currently trying has some texture, and I can say that for this application I am not a fan of the extra texture. It seems to be adding friction instead of reducing it.

It sounds like one difference in our fishing is that it commonly takes a bit of stripping to get the fish to commit over here. 10 to 15 feet is common, although sometimes the little guys will eat right next to the roots.

A new-to-me tactic that seems to be working is to deliberately make the first cast well short of the shore, then bang the popper real hard once or twice. That seems to make the fish think there is some feeding going on? Then, place the next cast close and work it like a crippled bait.

I had not considered trying the slip lift! That might work well between the first and second cast?

Thanks you both for your input!
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Re: Head at the rod tip increasing counterflex?

#29

Post by Lasse Karlsson » Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:29 pm

So let me get this straight, 50-60 feet is the target zone, 10-15 feet strips between recasting. 30 foot head, 10 foot leader 9 foot rod, so basicly we have the head in the rings when lifting?
I do a similar kind of fishing, slightly longer casting and thus a bit more stripping for pike in the reeds in spring, placing the fly (wet and poppers) in pockets all along while driftig. My arms havent fallen of yet... I can fully appreciate that someone has trouble being accurate while shooting line, will opt for carry and slip to laydown rather than shoot to thrill. 😉

And the question was if a shorter head and more abrupt back taper would help shooting and decreasing loop size, which it would, I refer to my previous clip playing with overhang.

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Lasse
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Re: Head at the rod tip increasing counterflex?

#30

Post by Paul Arden » Fri Jun 18, 2021 3:15 pm

Hi Gary,

They either hit it straight away or else show themselves in that time. Also the banks drop away very steeply. 2-3 strips and that’s the zone. And yes finding an appropriate line is very difficult especially tropical lines. I had a couple of technical tarpon lines from RÍO that had 60’ heads and were true to weight. Those were the best I’ve had. I’m pretty sure however they have changed the taper because what I see on their website is not anything like what I had! And those lines have since died now and I miss them.

I use SA Bonefish on my 8WT. 40’ head. And Infinity 9 (9.5) on the 10WT which has a 50’ head. I do like that line but I don’t have anything like the same versatility as I did with the Tech Tarpons.

If we can get out of this pandemic and I can get some guests again (next year I hope!) then I’ll do what I wanted to do last year and order up some tropical lines with longer heads.

Interesting tactic! Mostly I try to put it in every 2-3m or so, so I guess they probably hear it coming!

I always slip lift with everything. It’s just become natural now. It’s not always a compete slip but a controlled slip to lengthen the leg. I rarely false cast unless the bank disappears off into a bay and I need the distance, or if I need a presentation cast. I don’t know why but I find it much easier to be accurate with curve casts after a false cast.

Cheers, Paul
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